After 1,000 Surgeries, I Noticed This About Carbs

Okay, now I get it. Carbs are awesome. They give you instant energy, boost your performance, and according to basically every health guru and athlete on the internet, you need them to compete at a high level. That's probably a dangerous thing for me to say. But if we're going to talk about carbs, we need to talk about them honestly. And since we're being honest here, you already know that I've been on a carnivore diet for nearly 10 years and 5 years in my early 20s while playing professional rugby. [gasps] And with that and along with my intense study of medicine and biology, I've seen enough to know that carbs can actually be harmful. They're not just bad, though. What's actually happening is worse. Because it's not just everyday people. Proathletes all over America and the world are consuming up to 150 gram of sugar per hour during races, plus hundreds of grams of carbs leading up to competition. And everyone just assumes that's what it takes to perform at a high level. But what if the opposite is true? And what if we've been led to believe otherwise? Because after seeing thousands of patients working with hundreds of athletes, and studying the literature for years, I've noticed a pattern with carbs that didn't line up with what we were told. So, in today's video, I'm joined by Iron Man athlete Mike Davies, who went from vegan with average results to the Welsh national champion on carnivore, who reveals why he completely stopped relying on carbs, how he ran a 2hour and 37minute marathon with zero carbs or sugar, and the real reason why so many athletes are still pushing them as necessary. But real quick before we get into that, if you're serious about optimal health and if you actually care about what you're putting into your body and want to be around people who think the same way, I'm going to be celebrating America's 250th birthday at the 4th of July Montana meetup in Bosezeman hosted by my friend Bella Steak and Buttergal. Bella is a good friend of mine and generally one of the most downto-earth people I know. And the reason this stands out to me is simple. It's not just a conference. It's people hanging out, bonding over real food and health, and actually celebrating this lifestyle together. And the beef there is going to be fantastic as well. Sourced from Macafferty Ranch, where they finish their cattle on fresh sprouted fodder grown right there on their ranch in Montana, which is why it's very well marbled and some of the best tasting beef out there. So, if you want to come hang out with us, tickets are limited and you can grab yours at sbg.events and I'll see you there. Hello everyone. Welcome to the Plan FreeMD podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Anthony Chaffy, and today I have a very special guest, Mr. Mike Davies, who is the current reigning uh Welsh National Champion on the Iron Man. So, Mike, thank you so much for joining us. Great to see you. >> Thank you for having me on. >> Pleasure. >> Yeah, absolutely. So, um for for people who haven't come across you, can you tell us a bit bit about yourself and uh and what you do? Yeah. So, I'm a chiropractor is my work and I call myself a part-time athlete. >> So, I spend half my time training and half my time treating patients as a chiropractor. >> Um, and I got into the carnivore low carb space about in 2022. >> So, it's been about four years now. And prior to that, I was actually a vegan. >> Oh, wow. >> Believe it or not. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Um, so yeah. 2022 was when I met Richard Smith. >> Mhm. >> Who um who showed me the way. He just said, "Come to one of my talks. Um you might be interested." But at that time I was a little bit close-minded to it. Um >> so he talked me around and I ended up going to the talk and then turning my life around both in performance and health. Uh, prior to going to the talk, I was, as I said, vegan, but I was never like hitting the podium, I was racing, competing. I was doing okay, but I was never like hitting the podium, getting first, second, or third. It was always like I never thought that was possible. So, since converting from vegan to carnival, it's been an absolute game changer and my results have just kept getting better and better year on year. So, yeah, I'm really uh enjoying the journey so far. >> Yeah, very good. So, so what was the bigger game changer? Going vegan or going carnivore from vegan? So, we should we listen to Arnold or or what? >> Yeah, it was um making the shift from vegan to carnivore like step changing it quite slowly over time. >> Mhm. >> Introducing more um annual based foods into the diet, seeing my recovery and my performance just skyrocketing from there. um like of team as yourself when you were playing rugby when you went to carnival, your performance just went through the roof. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I definitely saw that myself and and I've seen that with a lot of athletes as well. Um and then some people think, well, because you know, some of the some of the top guys still use carbs and all that sort of stuff, therefore it must be that carbs are the way to go. But the but the fact of the matter is is they may not know anything else. I mean that's just what everybody does. And so and and so that's the advice and that's what you do what's the alternative you know if you haven't if you haven't tested both then you can't say that carbs are better than than no carbs because they haven't tested that. Now that we have tested that and we have randomized control crossover studies, uh we actually see no actually you get you get exactly um you get no drop off in performance and in fact in a lot of ways performance can improve and your energy levels can improve and then longer term you're you're you're actually improving your performance as well. And then I think the most important test is is you know the individual crossover trial where you do something for a while and then you do something else for a while and you just see what works better. And in your case anyway it sounds like uh you know this was better. >> Oh much. Yeah. Huge difference in performance. Yeah. And um that's you made an import uh important note there about um a lot of people say to me well you know you're an amateur athlete. you're not really you're miles off pro athletes and and they're all taking carbs. So, I get that all the time. People messaging me saying, "Oh, what about Pagacha is taking like 150 grams per hour when he's when he's doing his races." >> But, um, it's not a fair like a lot of the pro athletes are obviously sponsored by big sugar companies. So, >> do we really know how much they're actually doing? Because a lot of the posts you see online from the big sugar companies, you know, using their athletes to promote their products. >> So, we don't know where the truth lies and how much carbs they take because my kind of philosophy is that I train like zero carb. And then in some of my races, I've introduced a little bit of low carb, >> but I've also done some races completely fasted. And I'm still in my journey where I'm working out. Is like a really small amount of carbs beneficial or is going zero the best answer? And I had my marathon PB doing a zero carb. So I ran a 237 last year, >> which is quite quick. There are people out there running 2011, which is a lot quicker, >> but I for me I ran at 237, which is like over half hour quicker than what I previously run in a standalone marathon. Um, so yeah, like and I use zero carbs that day. >> My heart rate was 174 average. So I was in the high zone and I still didn't require the carbohydrate. So testing the way I'm doing it is I'm working out on myself what things are working and I'm trying to relay that back to people then because I'm still kind of figuring out the blueprint myself. >> Yeah. >> So yeah, it's a journey that I'm on at the moment and yeah, it's just getting better all the time really. >> Yeah. Great. Well, I mean, and that's and that's the whole point is that it's not, well, there's this guy who's been a professional athlete for however many years and had all all, you know, had all this buildup into his current uh success. It's did it improve your performance? >> You know, and and the thing is is that you wouldn't even be in a position to have these conversations with some people saying, "Yeah, but this other guy's doing it better." because when you were eating another way, you you weren't even in contention for the amateur races, let alone professional races. So, by simple virtue of the fact that you did switch to carnivore, you improved to such an extent that now you can start being compared to other people. And then there's, oh yeah, but >> well, but when you were doing but when you were doing carbs, you didn't have the performance that you have right now. And so, you know, did those other guys ever try carnivore? you know, because a lot of a lot of Iron Man competitors actually have um you know, like Pete Jacobs who's a was a world champion. Um he then switched to carnivore and he said it completely changed. He was having fatigue. He was feeling like garbage. He was having other sorts of issues and he switched to carnivore. He said it just completely changed everything. He was back training, feeling great. So that >> is a good example. That was, you know, the best competitor in the world in in at least that year. and he said that going carnivore improved his health and performance. So >> yeah, absolutely. I've seen Pete Jacobs's story as well is quite inspiring. >> He was in a bad place, wasn't he? From using high carbohydrates over like multiple years. >> You caught up with him and there's a lot of athletes out there who are using high carb and it's a lot of them are finding they're pre-diabetic now. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> There's a pro alete Lionel Sanders is a Iron Man athlete from Canada. >> Mhm. He was actually pre-diabetic when he done his blood testing the other day. And he's talked about that on YouTube. >> Yeah. >> Openly. But how many more athletes like that are there um who've been using high carb for multiple years who are potentially pre-diabetic? They don't even know about it cuz their health is declining. You know, their performance is pretty good because they're a pro alete. They've always been in that lifestyle. >> And the difference [clears throat] I got into triathlon only 2018 really. >> So I haven't done it for all my life, you know. So for for the progress that I've made in that short space of time, >> um you can't compare yourself to pro athletes who've done it since they were 10 years old, you know. >> Different uh >> Yeah. It's a different story. >> Yeah. Well, that's it. You need to compare it to yourself and and there was there's a gentleman uh Ryan Talbot who I had on the program. He went carnivore and it completely changed his performance. He was he was a D1 college athlete. So he's already, you know, a really good athlete, but he was sort of pole vaultting. He wanted to switch to decathlon. And he said he wasn't really feeling well, wasn't really doing, you know, performing the way he wanted to. Didn't, he felt that something was off. He went to the team doctor and they said, "Oh, everything's fine. Your testosterone is good. All these other things are good." And he's just like, "You know what? I don't feel good. So, you know, something's got to be wrong." And um he ended up going carnivore. And he said within weeks, he started just feeling better and better and better. and his performance started really taking off as well. And in his second decathlon ever, he ended up winning the Big 10 championship for the division one college championships and then earned all-American honors after that. He was a three-time back-to backto back all-American in the Decathlon, ended up representing America in the Panama Games, ending up winning bronze and and just, you know, just shy of making the Olympics. So, >> you know, and then and then someone said, "Oh, well, what about the guy, you know, who did go to the Olympics? What is he eating?" It's like, dude, >> yeah, >> they compared to yourself, you know, because he got into a position that he was in the running for the Olympics because he changed this, >> whereas he may not have been in that position before, you know, his he himself says this massively improved his performance and and objectively did because his numbers were getting better, his performance was getting better. the Cathon. I mean, it's it's very specific. You know, you have, you know, you're running this time, you're doing these these events, and you're and and they're very it's it's a as meritocratic as it's possible to get in any sort of competition and his performance objectively improved. So, >> you know, that's that's how you have to compare that. And again, yeah, what what is the guy, you know, what is Hussein Bolt eating, right? Well, what would he have run if he was eating properly? That's my question. >> Mhm. Yeah. And until he does that, you can't, nobody could ever say that he wouldn't be better until he does it. >> That's it. >> We can only look at That's what I try to say people is um people who are like say worse than me or not competing at the level that I am. >> I try to say to them that you can get to my level by not using carbs obviously because I've done it. I'm not I'm nothing special. >> I've just managed to get to where I am. Even though I'm not like there's people way better than me out there, but I've managed to get from a place where some people are currently to where I am now by reducing my carbohydrates. Um, so I tried to encourage people, you don't need carbs to get to at least to get to my level. Maybe if I look wanted to progress further, I could look at other things, but at the moment I'm still getting better and better and better, reducing my carbs lower and lower and lower. So, >> I'm just trying to encourage people you don't need you need to like you don't need carbs to perform at a very good level. >> Yeah. And and and we have studies showing that too, but it's it's one of those ones that that people really have a hard time giving up instead of just looking at the evidence and going, "Okay, great. That that's interesting." Looking at the biochemistry of like, "Well, actually, you don't need you don't need the carbs to do that. You get plenty of energy from the fat." In fact, they found that fat oxidization in in one study with Professor Nos in 2023 that they were they were burning 1.8 gram of fat per minute, which translates to about 1,000 calories an hour, kilo calories an hour, which is which is the average calorie burn for the tour to France, >> right? >> Yeah. >> And and they and they weren't just burning fat. I mean they're they're making glucose from glucanogenesis probably making a couple hundred other uh grams of or a couple hundred more kilo calories of energy available. So the energy is available. You know the idea that you will run out of energy is simply false. And then other people say well if you want to maintain a 1000 kiloalorie sort of burn then you need carbs. Well why is that when you're already burning 1400500 you know with no problem. You'd have to make the argument. You'd have to explain why the same amount of energy from fat or combination of fat and carbohydrates is somehow inferior to the same amount of energy from just strictly carbohydrates. Like you'd have to explain that. And of course that that's unexplainable because it's it's complete and utter nonsense. Um so they they really don't have any room to hide at this point. It's just more dogma and they're just their brains are just thinking, "Oh, no. This this has to be and and they and they're trying to find reasons why that's the case." And then of course there's products and like you you touched on which was they're sponsored by these these places with gels and sugar packs and things like that. >> Th those are big business and those people are really pushing hard to keep their business uh you know viable. And um you know, one thing that people say, "Well, I feel better with with with more carbs, okay?" But it's not from an energy point of view, right? Because like if you have if you're if you're burning or capable of burning, 1500 calories per hour just by being in ketosis, well, clearly it's not a a a limitation in energy that's holding you back. And in fact, studies have shown that, okay, you don't need 150 calories or 150 grams of carbs per hour on the tour to France or anything else. Um because a you're burning all that, you're able to um produce that. But that just as little as 20 gram of carbs per hour gives the same performance advantage or performance boost. Okay, but that's that's 80 calories. I mean, that's nothing, you know? I mean, so what what is that really going to do for you? But what they found is there's something called, and you may have heard of this, was called the central governor of fatigue, which is um this this idea that your brain just sort of looks at this and going like, "Hey, you've been chasing this analopee for way too long." And you're just wasting this energy. You need to give up and just stop. Go do go fishing. Go do something else. And it just shuts your your body down. You have energy available. You're burning the energy, but your your brain just shuts it down. So, it's this central governor and and it just slows you down, makes you tired, and you're just like, "No, we're not wasting any more energy." And so, when you take in 20 g of carbs, that seems to boom, light you back up again, even though 80 calories per hour is really nothing. But they they even showed this with ketogenic groups. They ketogenic and carbs. And a ketogenic and carb group, they absolutely performed at the same level. And then you added in 20 grams of carbs sort of per hour. they actually both both groups actually uh perform better. Great. >> There's that central governor of fatigue thing because um when you have uh when you what they've looked at is okay, you give them 20 grams of carbs per hour, they have a bump in their performance. But when you just give them like something sweet to sort of swish around their mouth and some like sugary water or something like that and then they just spit it out, they get the exact same performance boost, right? And it and it would make sense that it's something central that's slowing you down because 80 calories isn't isn't going to do anything when you're already producing 1,500 calories and you only need 1,000, right? So adding in another 80 is obviously nothing beneficial. But you know that's that relationship. And I see professional athletes, I work with professional athletes where they say, "Yeah, I'm sort of flagging and sort of getting a bit of fatigue, but if I have a bit of fruit, I feel better." and say, "Why don't you try just rinsing your mouth out with something sweet?" And like clockwork, there just energy comes back. So they're like, "Great. Yeah, I'm going to drop the fruit now." Um, so there's that, too. And people just don't understand that that they say, "Hey, I feel better when I eat a bit of carbs." That's probably why. >> Mhm. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> That's why >> you just sort of swish your mouth with any glucose or sugary drink and spit it out and you just do enough for the central nervous system. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. >> That's why I thought when I ran the marathon last year like completely fasted. >> Mhm. >> Um I was thinking now there are gels out on course if I need to if I'm feeling I need to swish a mouth I can just take a gel take a mouth and then spit it out. >> But I intended on doing a full marathon without any fuel at all. So I uh went in with no breakfast. just had um some ketones and caffeine before the race >> and then a little bit more of ketones and caffeine halfway through and it um yeah I didn't need to consume any carbohydrates at all >> and I've seen Alex McDonald isn't it the guy who ran the five marathons back to back to back to back with no food >> and I thought obviously I spoke to Alex about it that I'd be running at a much higher heart rate because I'd be doing them a lot faster and that was the difference then was trying to find advice of some people who had run them sort of titans by using zero carb and it's very hard to find uh people who who were talking about it online. >> Um so that's where I wanted to try kind of try myself just to see if I can run some really quick times um with a really high heart rate >> because they do say the higher heart rate is a crossover point. >> You start to become reliant on glucose >> but obviously I I didn't uh didn't reach that crossover point and I was working to like probably 90 95% of my V2 max. Mhm. Yeah. >> And that's for two and a 2 hours 37. It's a long time to be out there with no sugar at all. >> Yeah. >> Well, and that and that's the thing is that that you know, we have studies showing that you're that crossover point for ketogenic athletes when you sort of start burning more carbs than fat um you know, can be as high as 86% V2 max, at least in that study. And so at that point, you're still burning a lot of fat, but it's maybe more 5050, 6040. Um, so you're still burning a lot of fat. Um, but um you're just adding in more carbs. But the thing is is that, you know, you you make carbs and uh every time when you're burning fat from, you know, for fuel, you have this triglycerides have three fatty acids on a glycerol backbone. And so every time you pop off one of those molecules of of of um triglycerides, you pop off the fatty acids, it's left with one molecule of glycerol, which then gets turned into glucose and glycogen. So for every unit of of fat that you're burning, you aren't necessarily producing x amount of glucose and glycogen. And that's available energy to people. And so, you know, people think that that they're they're going to run out. It's not going to be it's going to be a problem. It's like, well, no, actually. you you may only in in these big runs, you may only get about 10% of your energy from that from that glucose and glycogen that you're producing. And that's and your body's fully capable of of producing and sustaining uh that amount as well. >> I think yeah, the key point is that you need to be fat adapted to do it, don't you? So the more you train the system in training, if you're training low carb or zero carb, you're actually training your body to upregulate these systems and it took a little while for me when I was adapting first of all. >> It took a few months and my performance potentially was getting a little bit worse, but from having like a consultation with Richard Smith, he was always guiding me through and saying, "Look, persist with it. You'll get better in time." Mhm. >> So, the longer you do it for, your body will start to be more efficient at um metabolizing fat for fuel and it will rely less on glucose. And that's the hard part for a lot of athletes is when they coming into this lifestyle, they've got to realize that performance may get a little bit worse. >> You've just got to persist with it through that time because when you get out the other side, your body's just so much more efficient at burning fat for fuel and it can go on for for hours and hours. And that's the big difference for me is I no longer rely on the on the sugar. Maybe in some races like um in a full Iron Man, I think I put like >> 20 to 30 30 grams of carbs in like per hour when I'm on the bike, but I find when I'm running then I don't tend to to need it. And >> I'm not really sure if that's just a psychological thing either because my body's obviously making the glucose enough. But >> in my head I'm like, if I don't put 20 to 30 grams of carbs in, maybe I'll be a little bit worse. But perhaps I need to try a full I am man now with zero carb. [clears throat] >> Well, you can certainly do it in your training and then and see how you go or just rinse and spit and and see how that goes because because again, you know, there there is a study that came out recently that showed that there was a bit of a boost even to ketogenic competitors by having about 20 grams an hour, but that's that's literally 80 calories. >> Yeah. >> I mean, you're going to blow through that so quickly. It's not. So, it's not it's it's very unlikely that it's just like, oh gosh, you just didn't have 50, you know, calories to to get you over that line. It's very unlikely. It's it's much more likely. It's that central governor sort of idea. And so, if you sort of do a rinse and spit, um, you know, before you you start the race and, you know, maybe halfway through, you might find that you don't you don't have any sort of issue. Obviously, that's something to to uh iron out in training um before your competition. And then so you you go in, you know exactly what to do on your training day. But I yeah, I I've seen so many athletes uh have that exact rel that that exact um experience where they they you know or or they just they just have this massive performance boost when they just rinse and spit. Whereas before have a little bit of fruit or something like that because they're sort of flagging a bit and they you know having a high intensity sort of training session. But then when they just sort of rinse their mouth out and spit it out, they just said, "Yeah, actually that fixed it. I had no problem." So, >> all right. So, >> you know, I've spoken to um some of the people who were on that that um recent study um that looked at, you know, adding in 20 grams of carbs that help keto and carb groups um and just said, "Hey, this is have you tested this against the central governor fatigue? Have you tried?" Because we don't have real studies with ketogenic athletes in central governor fatigue. who's only with carb athletes. So, I was just like, "Hey, why don't you try that? Why don't you try, you know, a group that actually takes in the 20 gram of carbs and then another gr that just does a rinse and spit, see what the performance output is u as as a difference because we we know that phenomenon exists." And when I was training or, you know, playing, you know, at a professional level, I would get tired at first, but it was much hot further than I did before. And every week because I was pushing myself so hard that that barrier just kept going up. And so maybe that was my central governor saying, "Hey, you need to you need to take it easy." But then that pushed out and pushed out and pushed out. Maybe that's part of fitness is just pushing back, you know, the line on on the central governor. And I got to the point where I was >> I could just couldn't get tired. I you know I was I was doing I was going for you know 12 18 mile runs and I'd be sprinting 800 meters at a time just half a mile just dead sprint just because I I wasn't getting tired and then I'd sprint like a full mile and then I' you know and then other times I'd be running I wouldn't be like sprint and then stop and catch my breath. I was at like a dead flatout sprint. Like as hard as I would sprint a 100, I was sprinting an 800 or a mile. And I really wish I would have timed this because it would have been sort of ridiculous. But >> um or even thought about competing in like an 800 or in a mile or something like that because I was literally sprinting >> flat out. >> And um and and then I I got to the one mile marker, half mile or one marker, one mile mark, depending on what it was. And then I was just running hard as hell. I was running a hell lot faster than I was before because now I'm just used to sprinting. I just keep running. Then I got to the point where I'm like, "Okay, I can do a mile. What about a mile and a half? What about two miles? What about three miles?" And it was this circular was like 3 miles up and 3 miles back. I was just like, "All right, I'm just going to bomb this and see how far I can go before I crash out." I just 3 miles up, 3 miles back, dead sprint. And it was like in between people. So I'm like juking in and out of them and things like that, you know, stop bam bam bam like that. And it was but it was at a it was at a flatout sprint. And I remember getting back and I'd probably run I think at that point it was probably around 24 miles and I was fine. I wasn't even winded but I just sort of said do I just keep doing this? Do I just do want to do another one? I'm like I don't know if it run like 24 miles like I guess go home. I I don't know. I was just like it was but then I remember thinking I was just like I should just you know then if I see like a Seattle marathon come up. This is like in 2002. Um, I should just enter it because I can I can just sprint the whole damn thing and just [laughter] just like set a world record and you know and get in the paper and things like that, but like um um you know this pre- internet sort of early to pre- internet days and um you know I never never really looked into it. I sort of thought the idea of just doing that was just like, well, that sounds pretty boring, but like so I I didn't like go after it, but I remember thinking at the time I was like, I really should do it because like I'm never going to be in this good of shape again. And and I want to like cement that to be like, well, you say you were Yeah, but look at this time like, holy [ __ ] that was you. You know, like >> and you know, something like that. So, I definitely regret not doing that. >> Hey guys, just want to take a second to thank our sponsor, Carnivore Bar. I don't promote many products because honestly all you need to be healthy is to just eat meat. But for those times that you're out hiking, road tripping, or stuck at work and you want nutritious snack that is just meat, fat, and salt if you want it, the Carnivore Bar is a great option. So I like this product not because it's just pure meat, but also because I want the carnivore market to thrive as well. And the more we support meatonly products, the more meatonly products there will be available in the mainstream. So, if this sounds like something you'd like to get behind, check it out using my discount code, Anthony, to get 10% off, which also applies to subscriptions, giving you 25% off total. All right, thanks, guys. >> I mean, I always recommend this to people that do distance. >> The human doing is I want to keep I want to keep on pushing it and trying to see what I can do to, you know, help spread the message to people that don't need carbs to get really good times. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And the faster I can get and the more I can do, >> the more it pushes that message out, doesn't it? >> Yeah. Well, and that's and that's it. And you and you're the, you know, the Welsh national champion, you know. So, that's awesome. >> And um, you know, but the thing is I always I always recommend to people doing distance stuff, >> try try doing wind sprints, you try your training, just see. I mean, you you might be surprised that, you know, just do like a a quarter mile, half mile, something like that in your and just do it as fast as you can, just a full-on sprint, and then, you know, run. And that'll pick up your pace for the next quarter mile, half mile sort of thing. And then you hit it again and you just go. And you know, you being as fit as you are already, you'll probably find that you can do a lot more than than you think you than like other people would already. And then you keep training [clears throat] like that sort of that wind sprint sort of style. I I am absolutely positive that you'll get to the point that you can just sprint the whole way. Yeah. >> And uh and >> you're pushing your top end pace >> Mhm. >> through the ceiling and you're pushing your top end right up um and still using fat to fuel it. >> Mhm. >> You know, so you're you're adapting your body and you over time to to get faster and faster and faster without needing any any glucose. >> Yeah. >> Well, you do need glucose, but the body, as you said, makes the glucose you need. >> Yeah. So yeah, training that system is going to push your top end up and then easy pace will feel >> like a stroll in the park. >> Yeah. Yeah. Or or even now, you know, because it's just a hard run. It's like it's fine. It's not it's not a sprint, >> but you know, you can get to the point the human body is capable of getting to the point where you can just basically be at your top end for a very long time and you don't and you don't crash out because you're running on fat and and what you know what what carbs you need. Um, so yeah, just just planting those seeds, you know, see how you go in your training and you let me know how that how that goes. >> Yeah. Yeah, it's all going well. And I had quite a lot of people like reach out to me on Instagram now because again, [snorts] we're just looking for other people that are doing this lifestyle and getting good results. >> So yeah, it's all about helping each other, isn't it? And um just explaining what you do and then letting people make their choice about it then, isn't it? >> Yeah, exactly. So, so leading up to like a competition when you're doing like an iron man or a triathlon or a marathon, um is it what what is your your preparation? I mean, obviously you're not carb loading, but are you eating on the day? Are you fasting? You drinking water, salt? What what is your sort of uh go-to? >> Yeah. So, um in the leadup to a race, like it depends on the distance at the moment. So, as I said, I've done last year I did the um Newport Marathon. >> And I thought, right, I'm going to try it with zero carb. I'm going to try it fasted. So, I'm not going to eat breakfast. >> Um and I'm just going to take, you know, I do drink coffee, so I had a black coffee before the race. >> Mhm. >> And then took on, you know, you can get exogenous ketones. >> Mhm. >> So, I get them from Richard Smith's company, the Keto Pro. So, I use the exogenous ketones, which contain caffeine as well. So, I'll have a little shot of that before I start the race and then I'll try and get another shot of that halfway through the marathon [snorts] >> and that'll boost my caffeine levels up. Um, but that's all I consume. I don't take on any like allergies or or glucose as such. I don't take on any gels during um do it completely um carb free. >> Um so that's one of the times I've tried doing it zero carb. And then last year when I done I am on Wales, I think I used 30 grams of carbohydrates per hour on the bike. >> So I was on the bike for about five five and a half hours. >> Mhm. >> So that's 150 gram over the whole bike section and then when by the time I got to the run I found I'm just going to run and see how I feel. Like if I feel like I need some uh gels, I'll just take a mouthful as you said and either swallow it or spit it out depending on. So I just sampled with it. I took like a mouthful of gel every hour or so. You talking barely hardly any glucose [clears throat] and that just might have been because my um psychologically I was feeling like I needed something. It may have been caffeine. Um so I was just triing it with that. So yeah, I've done um I'd say that's really low carb because there's some guys who were taking like 150 grams per hour on the bike and like you're looking at about 1.5 kilos of sugar. >> Jeez. He's taking in during [laughter] the bike section. Yeah. >> Good lord. >> Yeah. It's crazy. In a full li, man. They taking on Yeah. 1.5 kilos, which is absurd. >> And like a lot of people are struggling with gut problems then when they when they try to start running after the bike and it's uh there's no wonder really, is it? >> No. No kidding. >> So, so I think like the 20 to 30 grams is really on the low end compared to 150. Um, so yeah, unlike the night before race, then I don't consume any carbs. I just take a about 1.2 kilos of chuck steak. >> Mhm. >> And that's pretty much all I have. Then maybe some Greek yogurt as well the night before. >> Mhm. >> Just to boost that fat. And then on the morning of the race, I don't Yeah. black coffee. Um, no breakfast. and just go into it because um I think they said about the glycogen um storage you have, you can't really boost that anyway. It'll only last for 90 minutes. >> I think that's what they said Professor No is on about glycogen. >> Mhm. >> Um so after 90 minutes, you're both on the on the same level anyway. M >> um so yeah I all my racing now I I start off fasted and then yeah consume whether it's zero carb or low carb start consuming that in the bike in my bottles. >> Um and also I do use MCT powder. >> Mhm. >> In some of the longer races. Yeah. Just to get the ketones um going. >> Okay. Yeah. >> Electrolytes MCT powder and exogenous ketones are my products that I use from the Keto Pro. >> Yeah. Have you have you sort of um done a comparison like on your training and and um tried with the MCT and without and seen a difference? >> Yeah, that's what I'm finding. That's it's tricky. It's quite hard because I'm I perform really well with zero carb in training. >> Mhm. >> When it comes to a big race, it's more of a psychological thing. I think, oh, if I don't put carbs in, perhaps I won't perform as well. I think I need to just bite the bullet and go for it because all of my training performances has done zero carb >> and I never suffer [clears throat] any um any bonking or any fatiguing. >> Yeah. >> Um so that's a good sign that I probably would be fine. But I don't know it's more of a psychological thing and when a big race is coming up I'm thinking >> if I leave the carbs out will I suffer a little bit of a performance dip? It's really hard isn't it? cuz I know there's a lot of studies out there, but there's not a lot of people talking about doing fast diamond man times on zero carb. >> So, I'm still trying to find them people. So, if anyone's watching this, they can uh reach out to me. >> Yeah. Well, I mean, there there are a lot of people that that do these sorts of things. They just don't talk about it all that much. And and some of them are sponsored by, you know, wedies and things like that, you know, so they're they're not allowed to talk about these sorts of things as well. Um but you know I I was wondering as well so the so in an Iron Man or triathlon or whatever is it um the first event would that be the swim portion? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Uh which makes sense. I guess you're sort of exhausted at the end. You don't want people drowning you know but um >> like how long would that would the swim be in uh in the in like a full iron man? [clears throat] >> It's um 3.8 kilometers. >> Okay. So how long would that take you? usually >> takes me I'm swimming is my weakest discipline so it takes me around the hour. >> Okay. Um >> pro athletes are coming in about 48 minutes I think. >> Okay. >> Top 10 pro athletes. >> Yeah. I mean, I suppose that if it's that if it's like a sort of an, you know, 45 minutes to an hour, then um I guess you could you could sort of argue that well, maybe people are still using their glycogen, but [clears throat] you're probably not sucking down a gel in the middle of your swim, >> you know, and so that's sort of like the great equalizer is just like you just have to run on what's in your body. No, no, no. You have to have this much per hour. Okay. Well, you know, like you you're not doing that in the ocean, you know, and um well, and you know, that's the other thing, too. I mean, there's people that do I mean, people swam across the English Channel, >> you know, and I mean, in the 1800s, you know, they there's a woman that did that or early 1900s maybe. >> And um in like a big swimming dress, you know, I wasn't that going to be good, >> you know. So like would she she taking down sugar packs and gels and like [laughter] banana, you know, every hour and stuff like that? Probably not. >> And you dodging sharks out there. So um you know that's um yeah I mean that that probably you know tells you that you know >> if you don't need it during the swim you know do eat it you know at other times as well. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, but um yeah, so just sort of sort of thinking out loud, but so what what is the the next uh competition you have coming up? >> I've got the London Marathon coming up in under two weeks now. >> A week a week Sunday. [clears throat] >> Yeah. >> I'm going to like I did last year, you need um a qualifying time to get in for the London Marathon. >> Mhm. >> And that is under 238. So last year when I done the marathon, I got qualifying time for the elite dentistry for London marathon. >> Yeah. Right. Nice. >> Doing that now in two weeks and I'm going to use the same protocol as I done last year. >> So intend on going in zero carb. >> Mhm. >> And there's gel stations there if I really feel like I need it. I don't think I will based on training. That's because everyone is so caught up on it and that's all everybody talks about is oh carbohydrates carbo like it makes you think oh do I do I need them? >> Mhm. >> It makes you question yourself but I've proved it already that I don't. >> Um so so that's good enough for me isn't it? I'm walking the walk myself and that's the way I'm learning. I'm I'm doing it myself and then testing it in in a race. >> Yeah. Nice. So, I'll plan on going in zero carb with some ketones, caffeine, and MCT powder probably. And then if I'm struggling towards the end, I can always take a gel, take a mouthful or see how see how it goes with that. >> Yeah. Well, you could you could also just try um doing a rinse and spit before before you start, >> you know, just and start off on that on that >> on that level. >> Um, you know, sort of two weeks um for training. I mean, you can definitely do some good training, but you're sort of on, you know, just sort of coast time here, just sort of maintaining, getting going. But, um, you could always try some wind sprints, you know, hit the track and just, you know, >> Yeah. few pickups. >> Yeah. Well, you know, even like, you know, sprinting a 100, then jogging, you know, 100, then sprinting and jogging, sprinting, jogging, >> and just you picking up that tempo a little [clears throat] bit and um, you know, just see how your body reacts to it. And I think, you know, being as in shape as you are, I think you'll be able to handle it really well. And, you know, pushing yourself up um in the pace a bit generally um you know, lifts your your your body's like, "Okay, we we can handle that. We've done that." >> You know, you adapt you adapt and overcome the next um next. >> Yeah. I'm I'm really hoping like that that someone someone can take take up where I I I you know I left off where like getting to the point where you could sprint like a marathon and just just crushing a world record just just a dead sprint the whole time. I know it's possible. I did it, >> you know. I just didn't get it get it on paper, you know, but I I know how I felt and I know what I ran. So, um I just didn't time it. But um uh I know it's possible. I know the human body's capable of it >> and uh it's a matter of just doing it, you know. So >> maybe maybe you'll give that a try where you start working in some sprints. >> Yeah. Perhaps I'll try out the London now and see how fast I can get those shorter distances and then work up from there. >> Yeah. >> Improve the 5K then move that onto the 10K and perhaps build it up from there. >> Yeah. And even even just trying the wind sprint idea, say running a 5K, but doing it, sprinting 100 meters at sprinting 100, then running 100, sprinting 100, running 100, and just see how you feel for a 5k and, you know, without any carbs and just running on your fat. Like I I I would bet that you're going to get to that end of the 5K going like that was actually piss easy. And uh and you could probably keep doing that and see how you go. Yeah. >> Um, do you have when's the next Iron Man? >> I haven't got a full Iron Man planned this year. >> Okay. >> Um, because I done my last one was in September. >> Okay. >> And it it was a lot of training I put in for that. >> Yeah. >> So, I was um full I am distance. You got I was training about 20 25 hours a week. >> So, when you're working it's quite tough because I'm like the top end amateur. I'm not pro alete sort of yet. you're at that cusp where you're working. Um, it's only full-time jobs. You can't really commit the full hours of training. You've got to you've got to work >> very hard then to progress to the next level. >> Um, so I dedicate a lot of time to doing the IMAN last year. >> Um, so this year I'm going to I'm only doing a half iron man distance for Great Britain. >> Mhm. >> And that one's in July then. So that's obviously like a half an Iron Man distance is half the time. don't need to train as much but maybe like next year maybe try another full distance but try the courses that I've done have been really hard so I've done Iron Man Wales which is one of the hardest in the world is ranked as the hardest or second hardest Iron Man in the world >> okay >> lot loads of hills um and then there's a it's a sea swim and a really hilly run at the end just it is known to be really tough like so last year my goal was to go down to IS win it >> and I felt just short of it in the end. I came sixth overall. >> Wow. So really good. >> Yeah. So I came sixth and I was about 12 minutes off the win. >> Mhm. >> So and I'm racing some really fast guys here now. These pro athletes or or exro athletes as well. >> And a lot of them are pros. They just haven't had the license yet. So I basically got got beaten by pro athletes only. >> Mhm. >> Pretty much. Um so we're at the top end of the like amateur athletes at the moment. And as I said, it's really difficult to step up to their level because I've got to dedicate time for work. Um, so that's the challenges I have of like that's the difficulties of being amateur athlete damn work at the same time. >> And that's what I'm trying to um to advise people is like I'm doing this while working as well. >> This is my full-time job. I haven't done this all my life. I've only been doing it for the last eight years, but these guys have done it all their life. >> So, I've made these gains in my performance over this short space of time. And um yeah, that's that's what I want to try to preach to people really and um get them to see that they can improve, you know, their performance doing low carb. >> Um but yeah, next Iron Man, I'm hoping to do one that I can get a really fast time. >> Yeah, >> that's nice. So, if I do like a flat course somewhere in Europe um with cool weather, >> I think I can come in around I've had a little look online on chat GBT and put my times in and stuff and that reckons I can do about 820 on a flat iron man course which is decent time. >> Okay. >> I done the world championships in Hawaii which was about 38 degrees I think and the humidity. >> Jeez. >> So, I managed to come in I got 9 hours 11 in that one and that was a Welsh record as well. So it's the fastest Welsh month to ever race in the world championships. >> Yeah. Right. Very good. >> Yeah. So but the 911 out in corner is the equivalent of like an hour slower probably because of the heat, humidity, and it's a really tough >> it's a really tough course. So yeah, that's the plan really to see how how quick we can go on the perfect uh in the ideal conditions then. >> Yeah, definitely. And um and so well I mean the thing is too I mean you came in you know sort of 6 minutes behind the the leader or sorry 12 minutes behind the leader when you came in six [clears throat] and you said yourself that you were probably at an hour mark on the swim and then like the other guys were probably making it like 45 minutes or something like that. So that's you know you know that's that's um a big part of that right there. you know, and you tighten up that swim part. Sounds like the rest of it you've got, you know, bang on on the professional pace. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Pretty much. Yeah. And I mean, like, if I wanted to pursue, I could probably get my pro uh pro license. >> Mhm. >> You just need to do a qualifying race to do that, which I I didn't do last year because it's a tough decision because if I went pro, um I may have to give up work. Um and then how do you get funding? because you don't win a lot of prize money >> and you need to get sponsors which is where obviously the the sugar companies come in. >> Yeah. >> Which I wouldn't be willing to do. I wouldn't willing to be paid by sugar company to promote their products that I don't even use myself. >> Yeah. >> Um so it' be a tough call and I I don't blame the pro athletes for what they do because they don't get much money from other sources. So they they need to take on sponsors like you know Red Bull and Martin Gels and Lucasade. They need to take on these sponsors to earn money. >> Um so [clears throat and sighs] I wouldn't do it myself but I understand why they do it you know. >> Yeah. Well but you know you got like still you still got Nike Adidas you know things like that. You you go for product wear >> as opposed to the gels. Um, >> yeah. >> And, um, you know, but but if you got if you got your pro card though, what what would that mean differently? Was that that mean I mean, wouldn't you I mean, you could ostensibly continue what you're doing now, which is train part time and work part-time, but just now you're at a at a professional level because you qualified to be. Would that would that be the case or would you sort of have to commit to more um more of a professional setup? Yeah, the challenge you have then is that you'd be racing against the all the pro athletes. You're in the top end um racing and so the problem is if you couldn't commit more time, >> you'd end up coming last all the time. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> In order to push your performance up to their level, you need to commit more hours in time. >> Um which would mean then having to sacrifice work. They're tough decisions to make as an athlete and is like, do you really push on here now and try and hit that next um that next level or do you [gasps] >> still race as an amateur, still work? They're tough decisions to make. >> Yeah. Well, you know, maybe maybe Richard could sponsor you, you know, the problem solved. >> Maybe. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Maybe. Maybe one day. >> Yeah. Well, that's great though, man. And you know, but but the cool thing is is that you know, you're you're you're [clears throat] competing at that level even though you are working full-time. You're not doing this as a as a as a professional full-time sort of employment. And that and that speaks, you know, to to this as well because, you know, normally I mean, you know, sort of like, you know, Dan Gable, one of the best wrestlers in Olympic history, you know, the day after he won the world championship, uh, in wrestling, he um he was up at he every morning he gets up at 6:00 a.m., runs 10 miles, and, you know, the day the morning after he won the world championship, he got up at 6:00 a.m., ran it ran 10 miles. And some of his teammates are like, "Dude, damn." Like, what what are you doing? like he's like, "You just won the world championship. Like, take a day off, man." And he's just like he's like, "No." He's like, "I'm" He's like, "Why why are you training the day after you you uh you won the championship?" He said, "Because I know my I know the other guy isn't." And so, I'm going to train harder. I'm going to train more. I'm going to get up at 4:00 a.m. I'm going to work out and I'm going to get all these extra ones in because I know they're not doing that. And um you know, so the thing that's normally it like you got to train harder, train longer, train better. um you're not able to you know so like you're you're training you are limited by that and you're getting you know so you >> you have to get the best quality training you can get but at the same time like you you you're working you know so you can't just >> you know when I was when I was you know playing at my peak I was I was probably training 6 to8 hours a day every day in college which wasn't fun you know I was I was finishing up at 10:00 most nights you know what I mean but um but I was still getting those hours in, you know, and so I was able to able to push myself past that. And then when I, you know, finished college, I was just just training, you know, when I was when I was just playing. And um, you know, so I was able to do that. But um you know even though you're not able to train as much as those guys, you're still you know competing at that level which just goes to show you that if you were able to train even maybe just as much as them not even doing the Dan Gable where you're doing you know extra workouts you know at 6 a.m. and things like that but you're just maybe the same if you just had the same training profile as them. you know, how how much better would you be because you're already sort of at that standard already and obviously that will push you into um into, you know, really really top competitive position as a professional. >> Yeah. And and yeah, and there is in I man Wales last year there was actually a few people who had got their pro license. >> Mhm. >> But they were they they're pushing it to this year to start. So they were actually pro athletes in the field that I actually I actually beat some of them. >> Nice. Yeah. So, you know, we are competing at that level. Even what we're doing now, it's just if if I was to take that next step. >> Um, yeah, that's the choice to make, isn't it? It's uh >> or do I just keep doing what I'm doing at the moment? >> Yeah. Well, you get like a like a like an only fans and just like have that in the background and then just like have fund your your um your training, things like that. >> Yeah. I've I've actually started well as a chiropractic clinic. I've started to um if people reach out to me on Instagram, then I I offer them I do a little bit of coaching or consultations to help go through >> what I've done as an athlete. >> Um to help them to transition into using low carbs because I get a lot of people message me saying like they've had bad guts or they've had like health issues with training, they can't tolerate gels anymore, they don't want to take um carbohydrate drinks anymore. >> So they look for people online and they they find me. So they message me and then I say, "Look, if you want to go through it in a little bit more detail, we can book in a call." >> Yeah. >> And yeah, it's surprising how many people are are jumping on that. >> They're sick of using these sugar products and they want to just get healthy, >> get better performance. And I think we can do both of those things. We can improve people's health >> and we can actually improve their performance as well >> because what I touched on at the start, I was vegan before. >> Mhm. >> Looking back, I realize now how bad my guts were being a vegan. I was trying to go out for a long run. I'd have to plan toilet stops >> because I'd go to the toilet like I don't know six or seven times in a day >> which is not normal. But looking back now I thought that was just normal and I was looking for ways to and I could never find a solution for that >> until I met Richard Smith >> and I got a lot to thank him for with that because he changed my performance and my health. I no longer sort of I go to the toilet normally. I don't eat fiber anymore and my gut is completely 10 times better than it was before when I was eating all this fiber. >> So, you just don't need it. And yeah, it's changed my life around doing the uh the low carb lifestyle really. >> Yeah. Nice. Well, that's great, man. And um you know, it it is pretty interesting. You're coming from the vegan thing. If I I you know I don't want to keep you too long because I know you have work uh here in a minute but super interested in what made you go vegan in the in the first place and how long you were doing that. >> Don't tell documentary please. [laughter] >> I was um four or five years as a vegan. >> Mhm. >> And the reason I started off on that path was because of a friend of mine. >> He was doing vegan at the time and he was telling me about it. Show me all these studies. M >> um which I looked at and at the time I didn't really know how to read a study or research paper. >> Mhm. >> So they're epidemiological studies and there a lot of them. >> Mhm. >> Which I was just looking at at face value, not reading the full studies and going, "Oh my god." Yeah. Like you know blueberries antioxidants and the the broccoli causes you to reduce your risk of cancer. >> Red meat causes cancer. I was listening to all of these studies. >> Um and my friend was pushing them in my face and I was like, "Oh my god, yeah. I need to stop eating red meat. >> I need to stop eating eggs. I need to stop eating saturated fat. You know, I need to get my cholesterol down. All this all of these um common things. >> So, I got caught up in that and then decided to go all right, I need to go vegan. So, that's why I went vegan. >> Done it for four or five years and then like I was not feeling great. My performance was okay. Could have been better. But just only now looking back I can see how perhaps poor my health was. Even though I didn't have any um diagnosis or um health conditions only now looking back I can see how bad my gut was, how bad my sleep ball was, how bad my energy was. >> Mhm. >> How bad my mental health perhaps was as well. And it's only now that I feel amazing. I feel like full of energy, full of performance. Everything is much better. I can look back now and go, "Yeah, perhaps the vegan, the way I was living wasn't good." >> And it was only because I met Richard Smith um because I was helping him with a back problem when he was running. He started running came to me, met him and he said, "Come to my talk." And that was the moment where I started to go perhaps all of the things that I've looked at in the past, these perhaps it is all nonsense. Mhm. >> And then he guided me into like teaching me how to properly read a paper and and look at a study and and know if it's good or bad. >> And that's when I started to realize then my whole world started to like crumble down on me. I was like, "Oh my god, what I've done for the last five, four or five years is complete horit basically." >> Yeah. That's funny. Well, you know, at least you had had an open mind enough to to actually, you know, try something new and or at least listen to something new. But, you know, your your approach on that, I mean, you can't fault it. I mean, you you were presented with evidence that that seemed very compelling. They try to make it compelling on purpose because they're trying to sell an ideology. So, you can't fault people for for, you know, believing that because they're they're they're working really hard to make people believe that. And so, you know, you doing that saying like, "Wow, hey, this is this is a healthier way to eat. this is going to be better for my health, this is going to be, you know, reduce my risk of of disease in the future. Like, yeah, why? Of course you should. You know, if I really thought that red meat was bad for me, I I wouldn't eat it. You know, I mean, even though I I love steak, that's the the thing I I I've always loved the most, if I was convinced that that stuff was as bad as broccoli, I wouldn't eat it. Just like I don't eat broccoli. >> I gummy bears. I mean, love gummy bears. I haven't had a single gummy bear in a decade because I'm like, I'm not eating crap. It's not good for me. >> And >> that's what that's what we say as well is if you found out that the vegan lifestyle now based on research was better than carnivore, you go back vegan >> 100%. >> There is no there is no evidence there to say that and that's the reason why I'm continuing to be carnivore. >> Yeah, that's it. Yeah, same. So, >> we need to be openminded. If we do ever discover that broccoli is really good for us, and it's true, we'd eat broccoli again, wouldn't we? >> I I would have no problem with it. You know, [clears throat] you know, people say that that people that do carnivore are, you know, dogmatic and close-minded, and we're the ones that changed our minds. We're the ones that weren't dogmatic. We're the ones that said, "Hey, even though I've been told this for the last 40 years, uh there's new evidence, so I'm going to go with what what the evidence shows. We're the ones that aren't being dogmatic. We're the ones that aren't being close-minded." And uh and that's something that we that's a mantle that we need to take and own and say, "No, actually, we were the ones who changed our minds. We're the ones who looked at things critically. You're the ones who just kept following, you know, the the pied piper and and didn't even bother looking around at anything else. Yeah, it took a lot of open-mindedness to um to go to the talk and to listen, >> but I'm super glad I went now looking back a lot to thank Richard Smith for >> and yourself from from me. Richard then I found yourself. >> I found Sean Baker. I found all of these um Dr. ABS people talking online and then you just follow start following yourself, Sean Baker and all these people and you start to open your eyes and you go, "Oh my god, what have I been doing?" I didn't know this world existed. >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's good. Yeah. And it is it is a whole world because I wasn't taught this in medical school. I wasn't taught this when I was taking nutrition classes. Um I wasn't this just didn't show up. And then when I started looking into it myself, I mean, I didn't there wasn't anybody I saw that told me, "Oh, you should try ketogenic, >> anything like that." I just saw the massive difference when I was only eating meat and nothing else. And and so I started looking in the literature. Okay, what do we know? What can we prove? And there was just an entire world and libraries full of information and studies supporting this and and then I came across ketogenic because I was, you know, was just like, well, you know, that's this is a ketogenic diet. It's different than how they practice it, but that makes sense that we're supposed to be in ketosis. That would be our natural metabolic state because we're designed to eat meat and almost 70% of animals and insects only eat other animals. And then, you know, herbivores, they break down fiber into fat and protein. So, it's just like we're all sort of in ketosis apart from like hummingbirds and bumblebees that, you know, eat nectar and things like that. Basically, everything else runs on fat and protein. And so, you know, that made sense to me why people are having such good success with ketogenic diets because it's getting you one step closer to our natural diet. And it the big bonus is you're in your proper metabolic state. And so, you know, that made sense to me. But, you know, I didn't, you know, go keto because, you know, I I read Dr. Atkins book. I, you know, didn't know anything about it. um or or someone said it's just you know I came to I came to this um you know just on the on the on the the biological evolutionary principle that this is how we we've sort of evolved eating and um and then you know all that supportive information on ketogenic diets and how massively beneficial they are it all it all just you know clicked into place and there's so many other things that clicked into place as well none of those things are taught in medical school none of them and yet there are random optimized control trials showing that ketogenic diets are better than most medications for many diseases uh if not all medications. I mean it's obviously a better treatment for diabetes. It can cure diabetes can you know treat the root cause. You know for 100 years we've known that epilepsy can be put into remission in 50% of patients child and adult and the other 50% improve dramatically. Um same with migraines and um you know part it helps Parkinson's it helps Alzheimer's it helps you know so many the cancer and so why is that not being taught medical school we have we have we have huge opportunities there and we can always use medicine but hey why don't we do both why don't we take a holistic approach and say hey why don't you fix your diet in this way and then we'll look at medications and different sorts of treatments and and all these other sorts of things and it's not a hard conversation. I think I'd spent 10 seconds, you know, convincing a mother of a child who was having seizures at at the hospital. I was I was looking after her daughter, you know, 2 in the morning. She was having these episodes. Turns out she was having seizures and and uh but you know, resistant to treatment and things like that. and he just said, "Hey, by the way, there's 100 years of of clinical data showing that especially in pediatric populations, eliminating carbohydrates and doing a ketogenic diet can significantly reduce uh seizure uh and and and you know, as much as 50% can completely put them into remission without medication." Um, and she just said, "Oh, great. Yeah. Oh, yeah. We'll try that definitely." I mean, >> yeah, >> that quick, you know. So, it's not a hard conversation, but a lot of doctors, well, it's really difficult to change people's diets. It's really difficult to do this. Have you tried? You know, because when I try, it's actually not that hard. >> No. >> No. Especially when you're having seizures or your kids having seizures and you're worried sick about them. And that's a highly motivated individual. You know, if it's just somebody who just doesn't care, they just want to, you know, drink and smoke and just do, ah, whatever, doc. I don't care. just give me the blood pressure medication. Fine. You know, but you have >> Yeah. But if you're having seizures, your kids having seizures, or you have very serious illness, you know that you you're motivated. You're motivated to do something different if it's going to help. >> Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Agreed. >> Absolutely. Well, Dr. Davies, thank you so much uh for coming on. I'll let you go back. I know you got you got patients coming, so um thank you so much for taking so much time uh in your morning. Really appreciate it. >> Thank you. Thank you, Dr. Chaffy. Thanks for having me on. It's been great to talk. >> Not a problem. And please do tell us where people can find you, what your social media website, anything like that. >> Yeah, my my personal account on Instagram is the main place that I post [clears throat] on Straa really. So my Mikey D. Davis is my um Instagram. >> Mhm. >> Mikey Davis. And you'll just see a photo of me in an Iron Man uh in my Iron Man that I done last time. I f on the finish line with the arms up. >> Nice. That's very good. Well, great. We'll put that in the in the description so people can take a look down below and uh and take a look and see that. So, thank you so much. Really good to see you and uh good luck in the London Marathon and and all your competitions from here on out. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Thank you. >> Yeah. And thank you everybody for joining. Really appreciate it. If you or someone you know uh is is training for a competition and needs to hear this sort of information, please do uh share this and leave a comment down below with your experience training on a ketogenic or carnivore diet. Thanks everyone. See you next time. Hey guys, thank you very much for taking the time out to listen to what I had to say. If you like it, then please like and subscribe to my YouTube channel and podcast. And if you're on YouTube, then please hit that little bell and subscribe, and that'll let you know anytime I have a new video out, which should be every week, if not more. And if you could share this with your friends, that would help me get the word out and let me know that you like what I'm doing. Thanks again, guys.