He TRIPLED His Testosterone and Cleared Up His Skin by Going Carnivore! | Pascal Johns

[Music] Hello everyone. Thank you for joining me for another episode of the PlantFree MD podcast. I’m your host, Dr. Anthony Chaffy, and today I have a very special guest, Mr. Pascal Johns, who’s here to share his story with the carnivore diet. Um, Mr. Johns, how are you, sir? Yeah. Yeah, I’m very good. Thank you. Good. Um, yeah, happy to have you here. So, for people who haven’t come across you before, can you tell us a bit about yourself and and how you came to the carnivore diet? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, um uh so when I got out of high school, I I did a bunch of things. I didn’t go to college. Um I started a carpentry business where I make I make furniture for movies. I did some modeling. Um I was always really interested in nutrition. Um yeah. So around around like pretty much right out of right out of high school, that was when I started having issues. Um I got really extreme dry eye where like it just felt like constant crud was coming out of my eye and I couldn’t really bugged me because I couldn’t watch screens and so much of our life now is you know just like looking at screens. I couldn’t look at a screen because my eyes were so dry. Um, in hindsight, I definitely think that was oxalate related because it started when I was working on this salad greens farm and I was just like stuffing myself on greens every single day. Like I was looking at my poop and it was green and I was like, “Oh, this is so good. This is so healthy.” You know, because I’m eating so many greens. That’s funny. Yeah. Yeah. Because like the farmer was like, “Just taste it.” This is like a really high-end like sal farm where like we were smelling very small amounts and um uh yeah so yeah it started with the dry eye and then I started having these skin issues that started escalating. So I had like keratossis polaris which was kind of mild but then over time it just sort of it just kept getting worse and worse and spread all the way along my front thighs, my calves, back of my arms and um when I looked it up and talked to my dermatologist um he said that basically nothing you can do is genetic. you know, like it’s just a turn by your genes because you’re northern European, nothing you can do about it. Maybe it’ll go away at some point. And that never sat right with me because um I never thought that an entire race could just have a disease. Seemed very unlikely to me. Well, also, you know, if it was genetic, would you it maybe it goes away? So maybe your genetics go away. I mean, what kind of answer is that? Totally made sense. Yeah. I mean, the simple fact that you weren’t born with it and didn’t have it throughout the entirety of your entire life and that it might go away means that there’s something else at play there. You have a genetic predisposition, sure, but you have an environmental trigger and that’s the majority of conditions that we have. And you know, I mean, I’m sure I’m sure your doctor took genetics um in college and that’s that’s what we get taught in genetics. So, that’s a very strange answer from a dermatologist. Yeah. No. Yeah. Sorry, didn’t mean to interrupt though. No, no, no, no, that’s okay. Yeah. Um, and in addition, I noticed that this disease was much, much more common in people who are overweight. Uh, so I was like, if it’s much much more common in people who are overweight, like is it just that people who are overweight are like have the genetics for this or like I highly suspect that it it actually was caused partially by whatever, you know, the same factor that was that was driving at that. So yeah, so I didn’t like that skin condition. It was just there and then I got acne and it just kind of kept getting worse. Um, I went on Accutane and it actually came back even after that and that was that was really hard because um that just like took a toll on me like it definitely like had side effects. I could tell it wasn’t really very good for me especially at the end and then for it to come back it’s like I did all this for nothing. Um, yeah. And what else? So yeah, my teeth were becoming very loose uh for whatever reason. That was really weird. Like just a few and um very soft. Like I could kind of go like this and I could feel that like I was almost like wearing them away. So that was that was Yeah. Um and then I got a testosterone test which was very low. So happy about that because I had I had all kinds of like I was constantly stressing, couldn’t relax, you know. So, I was like, “Oh, this makes perfect sense.” You know, my testosterone’s low. But I had no idea how to fix it. I thought it was maybe just, you know, chemicals in the water, you know, bad luck. So, yeah, I had at that point realized though that I was kind of on like the Paul Saladino sort of fruit and meat fruit and meat diet. I had lost quite a lot of weight. Um, I sort of did that right out of high school and I felt better, but it was kind of like the low-fat version, which like lean protein and fruit and a lot of fruit. Like I was constantly eating fruit. Um, because it’s kind of like like addictive, you know, all winter long all the time, right? And like that was that was really bad for my teeth. So even if I’m brushing like that constant exposure to acid and sugar like just yeah takes a toll. So um yeah, so I was interested in Weston a Price stuff too at the same time. Sort of the idea of like um how uh people in hunter gather populations uh especially um this island in Katava I was studying where there’s not a single zit on the entire island in this island off the coast of Papa New Guinea. Not a single one. So I was like, “Oh, so they say acne is genetic as well, but clearly it’s not because when those islanders go to Australia, they get massive acne.” So clearly not genetics. Something something about their diet uh removes it. So yeah, I was just like kind of marinating in all these ideas and what actually triggered me to uh um go carnivore was sort of yeah just well first of all I found this like very rare like testimonial on YouTube by uh the carnivore queen saying that it made keratossis pyaris go away completely. only case I found on the internet anywhere of someone saying they could reverse it like very quickly. Some people had said it just gone away but nobody nobody had said that um uh they just like yeah just reversed with the diet. So I was very interested because of that. And at the same time I started getting these boils on my leg that were big. Like it was actually kind of scary. I was like what is going on? Like what is wrong? I could clearly tell that something was really off. Like I didn’t feel good. My sleep was getting really bad, too. Um, yeah. So, yeah. So, it was mainly just for my skin at first. Um, and I didn’t even I wasn’t totally sure if like it even had all the nutrients I needed. I was sort of like going into this without a lot of knowledge. I was like, well, it’s just going to be an elimination diet. it will just you know clear out all those factors um but um once uh once all those factors are gone I can just add things back and I I knew I knew grains I knew processed food was bad and I never was eating a lot of that beforehand but um yeah I figured I’d add back fruit I figured maybe I’d add back rice flour things like that. So, yeah. Yeah. But within like two weeks, I just like felt like way better. So, yeah. Yeah. And well, I was just going to say, you know, it’s interesting, too. You’re doing quite a similar diet to, you know, solid. I mean, obviously, he doesn’t do like a lean, so he’ll do more fat. Um, so that might have been a factor too, but you know, you were already eating a pretty clean diet. You know, this is the argument that people Oh, yeah. Right. Yeah. Is that the only the only reason you get a benefit from doing a carnivore diet, it’s not because you got rid of the the fruits and vegetables and eat more fatty meat. It’s because you dropped the junk food, but you weren’t eating junk food. You were actually eating pretty healthy diet and you were still getting sounds like worsening uh skin issues. Yeah, exactly. That’s what I like to talk about. It was like I was literally just down to vegetables. lean meat and oatmeal. Like the perfect diet, oatmeal, that was what I was doing. And um like it was just dropping the oats and the vegetables that solved everything. And I was also eating waffles on weekends because you know you got to eat like some junk in moderation. Exactly right. Yeah. Everything in moderation, including heroin and genocide as long as it’s in moderation, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Know I’ve talked to a lot of people. They’re like, “Oh, you got to eat it in moderation.” But it’s like what do you mean just eat moderation? It’s like this is my moderation. Like I’m moderating this. Yeah. You don’t have to eat poison in moderation. You actually don’t. You know, the idea of eating everything in moderation means that you have you haven’t the first clue about human nutrition and you have no idea what what the human body requires from a nutrient profile and you just need to do do the shotgun approach and try to just get eat everything and hope that everything shakes out. You get enough nutrients. That would be fine if there was nothing bad on this earth to consume. But there are there’s actually more bad things to consume than good things to consume. And so while you may get some nutrients eating fruits, vegetables, oats, etc., there’s nothing essential that you won’t get from meat. So you don’t have to do that. But you also get a lot of the toxins. You also get the bad with the good. And so having that everything in moderation approach is not helpful from a nutrition standpoint because it just means you don’t know what you’re supposed to eat. If you know what you’re supposed to eat, just eat that. And saying that, well, you can eat bad things, just don’t have much of it. Okay, fine. If you want to eat bad things, I don’t. If you want to do heroin, you should probably do it in moderation. You shouldn’t do it every single day. But the problem is it’s addictive and it becomes an everyday thing and so do these addictive food substances. And if you just recognize heroin or alcohol or cigarettes or fruits and vegetables as containing things that aren’t be beneficial to your health, they are delletterious to varying degrees. Obviously, not as bad as as some things, you know, just fruits and vegetables, which a lot of fruits and vegetables will kill you if you eat them. So, they’re actually worse than heroin. They’re worse than alcohol. They’re worse than cigarettes. Um, of the edible um ones that we eat, most of which are treated, you don’t just eat them raw. They’re not edible raw. Like most beans and legumes are not edible raw. They have to be cooked and treated or else they are toxic acutely toxic and put you in the hospital could kill you. Um so recognizing that there are harmful things in there and saying, “Well, I don’t want to put toxic things in my body.” That’s that’s not a problem. Actually, that’s being responsible with your health. People say that, “Well, that’s orthorexic. You’re being you’re being too good.” Well, really what you’re doing is is you’re making them feel bad that they’ve got shitty diet and behaviors and addictions and you’re making them feel bad and so they want to bring you down so that they feel justified in eating garbage. Well, I don’t want to eat garbage and I don’t don’t want to do heroin. You know, that would be the same as if they’re saying that, you know, people that don’t shoot meth, you know, are, you know, equivalent of orthorexic for druggies. You know, it’s just like like, oh, you should be able to do it in not doing any drugs. You know, that’s that’s obviously going way too far. It’s like, yeah, if you’re a drug addict and you want to justify your addiction, I could see that argument, but I’m not a drug addict and I don’t want drugs in my system and I don’t want cyanide in my system. People say, “Well, there’s not that much cyanide in almonds.” How much cyanide do you want in your body? I’ I’d like zero. Thank you. And um and so you know, you know, brushing it off is like, oh, you you’d have to eat 40 almonds a day, you know, every day uh to build up enough cyanide to to cause significant neurological and thyroid damage. Like that’s not that many. Especially when you think of the fact that doctors actually recommend and have been recommending since the ‘9s that people eat 35 to 40 almonds every day in order to bring down their cholesterol because the phytoestrogens in in almonds and plant fats tell your body not to make as much cholesterol. So your cholesterol levels go down. So they’re telling you to take an actual toxic dose that that’s long-term exposure will cause toxicity, neurological toxicity and thyroid dysfunction. So, the exact prescriptive amount of almonds and how much doctors tell people to eat every day is the exact amount that will cause long-term neurological harm and thyroid dysfunction as well as multiorg organ dysfunction because it destroys the functionality of your mitochondria. So, that affects every tissue in your body. So, you know, it’s it’s not actually a bad thing to say, “Yeah, I don’t want any poison in my body. Thank you.” And it’s not an eating disorder to actually want to be healthy. It’s an eating disorder to say, “Well, I’ll eat I’ll eat garbage things that are bad for me, but I’ll I’ll just do it a little bit.” That’s dysfunctional eating by definition because you’re putting things in your body that don’t belong there, aren’t necessary, and cause harm. That’s disordered eating. That’s dysfunctional eating. And it’s the same we we use food in the same way that we do drugs. And no one’s ever you say with we should eat everything in moderation. Everything’s okay to eat. That advice has come directly from the processed food industries directly. They’re the ones who fund the uh dietetics associations. They’re the ones who fund the diabetes associations. They’re the ones who fund the eating disorder um psychologists and things like that and do the teaching. They say, “No, everyone should eat every You have someone who comes in with anorexia and they’re trying to be healthy and they’re not eating fatty meat because they’re told that’s going to make them fat and sick, but they don’t want to eat any of the fruits and vegetables. that makes them feel like garbage, then you know they don’t eat anything, right? And they say, “No, no, you can’t leave here until you eat everything.” Not whole foods. They have to eat junk food. They have to eat donuts. They have to eat cookies before they let them out of the hospital. I have a I I’ve worked with these people and I’ and I’ve seen them from the inside and I actually have um friends of mine who are psychologists in the eating disorder world and that is what they say. That is the teaching that they you they are not allowed out of the hospital until they are willing to eat junk food. Right? So, you know, the the idea that that you have to eat things that are harmful to you in moderation and a that’s okay. It’s not I mean it’s better than eating a lot of it, but how many people that do it like in moderation? It’s still harming you, you know, but it’s not good. It’s not you’re not supposed to do that. So, there’s a lot of a lot of things wrong with that that um eating in moderation thing. Yeah. Especially things like gluten and dairy in a few places. It just like these tiny amounts like can cause tremendous inflammation. Like, yeah, I was consuming those waffles and I always felt really tired. I actually gave it to my friend who um I later found out was gluten intolerant and uh he felt so tired. He’s just out after eating these waffles, right? He just sat on the couch like can do anything. And I was like, hm, maybe these are not maybe these are not so good for me. That made me question. I was like, maybe these are causing problems. And yeah, they were they were a major problem. And I was eating in moderation like once a week. People would consider that in moderation, you know. Um Yeah. And like my brother had eczema and he found that even traces traces of uh gluten will bring back his eczema. Like I just I just recommended that he uh he removed gluten from his diet based on all the stuff about lectins and autoimmunity, right? Gluten being appearing to be one of the biggest biggest lectins, you know, that uh trigger these things. So yeah. Yeah. And gluten can cause leaky gut as well. And that that opens the door for all these other lectins, toxins, and even bacteria and other pathogens to get into your circulatory system that would normally be kept out by your intestinal lining, right? But you get these these sort of gaps in the tight junction and you get leaky gut. And so now these things can pass through freely when they’re not supposed to be able to and then they get into your body and then they could cause all sorts of damage in your body. So um yeah and I I mean I see that every day in my practice you I have hundreds and hundreds of patients right now with autoimmune diseases and over the years that I’ve been doing this I mean literally thousands of people uh with autoimmune disease have completely reverse it or at least significantly improved it to the point that most of them will come off medication if not all of them will come off medication and you know sometimes you have things like thyroid dysfunction like Hashimoto’s you have so much damage to the thyroid it’s it can take a year or two for that to heal and and come off the medication if you’re very strict. But if there’s permanent damage that’s done, maybe you don’t get off all your medication, but the vast majority will at least stop the damage and and improve their functionality to the point that they come down on their medication, if not completely off their medication. And so there’s sort of that that cause and effect relationship when they start eating even fruits and vegetables, again, not even junk food. uh all of a sudden it comes roaring back and their antibodies spike up again. Whereas normally you just see it come down slowly over time because that’s our immune system stays active for a very long time and if nothing is is triggering it then it’ll slowly settle down but then all of a sudden you get exposed to something again. Bam those antibodies come up again and they take a long time. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. It’s like how are these antibodies like inherently harmful, you know, when you often remove the food and then they just imagine these antibodies stop, you know, attaching to the body cells, you know, because that’s the theory is that, you know, just circulating and they attach to an organ and then your immune system goes in and just blows it all up. But yeah, no, I thought your theory about that was really good. Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah. So, so h how old are you now and and when did you come onto carnivore? Um, yes. So, I’m 21 and this is I mean and I’m about to turn 22 and I started this exactly a year ago. I’m pretty pretty much like on the dot actually. Yeah. So, I’ve been doing it one year. Yeah. Very good. Yeah. And you said like in the first couple weeks you started feeling better. But you know what what walk us through that transition when you went to just you know sort of what were you eating at the time? What exactly were you eating and then what was that what were the changes and uh in your how you felt and and your skin conditions and things like that? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So um I did it cold turkey which is definitely not ideal. Um, I didn’t really have any digestive issues, but um, what happened is that my skin actually flared right off the bat like pretty extensively. And it might sound like you would think, oh, this is horrible. Carnivore is horrible. But in my mind, I was thinking this is having an effect like, uh, so I want to see how this plays out because I was pretty I was pretty sold on that at that point about it being a proper human diet. So it was going to take a lot of evidence to say that this was bad. So I was like I always had heard of like sort of ideas that your your body just needs to clear things, needs to sort of, you know, work out the damage that’s already present, you know, in that tissue. So I thought I thought it was something like that going on. Um, and yeah, sure enough, a month later, the boils completely went away, but there was definitely a flare that was kind of disturbing. Yeah. And this is interesting, too. So, the keratossis polaris, it was it was bad. It almost looked like acne all over my legs. Um, and there was an area of hair that was totally bald like on the back of my legs. Like the back of my legs are bald. And I thought, but that hair actually started growing back six months later. But the thing is because these hairs are poking up out of an area of skin that hasn’t had hair in years, it often creates a lot of inflammation as it came as it comes out. So it actually kind of looks like things are getting worse for a while, right? But actually that’s just the hair growing back. Yeah. And now the inflammation’s really come down as almost all the hair has grown back. It’s all sort of pierced its way back up through through the skin and has completely gone back which is like miraculous. Yeah, it’s interesting. Um that you know that is really interesting as well that you had a bit of a a worse it got you know got a bit worse before it gets better. I have seen that with other rash I mean with with with um psoriasis that’s something that people notice as well is that sometimes it can get it can get worse before it gets better and and that obviously can scare people off. you know, they go on a carnivore diet, but they’re they’re just trying to try something because they’re desperate, but they haven’t looked into it so much and that they h that they’ve been as convinced as you saying, “Oh, no, this is I think this is the right way for me to eat.” Sort of, you know, and we’ll see what happens in the long term. Um, and they can get a bit scared off by that and and then this is justified like, “Oh my god, people have these problems. You have to run away. You have to go add plants back in and all that sort of stuff.” But if you stick with it, typically that’s what happens after, you know, a month or two or or what have you. Um things start coming back through the other other side. And um uh that is interesting sort of yeah it’s an interesting phenomenon. I mean obviously a lot of these things are hormonal as well. And so when you have this this fundamental change in your in your diet, your hormones are absolutely going to change. I mean, even just the the simple fact that you don’t have as much insulin, that’s going to change u your hormonal expression significantly because insulin blocks the action and production of growth hormone, which is a major major hormone, especially someone your age. Um, and if that’s being suppressed, your body’s not going to be working properly. uh it will also block leptin and suppress leptin which is which is a major major hormone that that goes into the hypothalamus and and controls multiple hormones from the hypothalamus which control multiple hormones in the pituitary which control a huge huge amount of of hormones in the rest of the body. So and and you know it blocks estrogen production in women, it blocks testosterone production in men when you get insulin resistance because you have insulin can trigger um or signal testosterone production in the testes. And so people think ooh more insulin more testosterone. No, actually because when you um when you have more insulin you actually start reducing the receptors um in your testes and elsewhere. You start getting insulin resistance. You start getting a tolerance. It’s like this is too much. This is not what we want. And now your body’s not as sensitive to insulin insulin. And so now that signal goes down. Actually testosterone goes down. And so people especially with with insulin resistance, they actually find that they have very low testosterone levels. So diabetics, um people with metabolic syndrome, these sorts of things, insulin resistance typically have much lower levels of testosterone as well. And then when I put people on a ketogenic carnivore diets and their their insulin levels come down and their insulin resistance starts to reverse actually that sensitivity starts going back up and all of a sudden they’re producing more testosterone. People have to understand how these things interplay and and you know you know if you think that you know there’s a signal for testosterone from insulin then more insulin is better. It’s actually not the case. it’s actually delletterious and uh and will start having negative impact on your testosterone production. So when I have my patients go on ketogenic carnivore diets, they sometimes double or even triple their testosterone production and uh for total and free testosterone levels. even athletes. I have I’ve worked with athletes. I’ve you know interviewed Ryan Talbett. His um he’s a he’s a NCAA three-time all-American NCAA division one uh decathlete and he um and his testosterone level nearly doubled in in the span of a year by going on carnivore, you know. So that that’s obviously going to be a big impact for his athletic performance, but from a from a skin condition, from these boils, from acne, things like that, it’s also tied up in your hormones as well. And so when you’re changing your diet, this is also changing your hormones which is also going to change that that expression uh affecting your skin conditions and you sort of have to wait for things to sort of level out after a few months before you sort of get to a stable place and that’s usually when the skin conditions start to settle down. Same with women. uh they might see disruptions in their in their periods in their menes for the first sort of three four months but then after four or five months it’s generally very stable after that and usually improves and becomes much more regular. So that’s interesting that you had that experience but that’s that’s uh that’s sort of my thinking as to why that could have been yeah because my testosterone actually tripled verified by a blood test. Um I don’t know if you know who Dr. But he actually made a YouTube video about it. Dr. Who, sorry. Dr. Abs. I’m not sure if you know. Yeah, I know. Dr. Abs. Yeah. Yeah. It went up by by 3x. So nice. I I thought I always thought that low testosterone might be like a coping mechanism for high degrees of inflammation because we know that testosterone makes acne worse, right, when you’re prone to it. So, it could be that your body’s actually trying to prevent your acne from getting worse by keeping your testosterone low. So, it could be potentially that, you know, once I started this, my testosterone skyrocketed and that made all my skin conditions, you know, worse. And then after a bit, everything leveled out. That was sort of what I was thinking in my head, but it’s just a theory. Well, you know, and and it it it’s whether it’s whether that’s the exact cause or not, it’s, you know, it’s certainly feasible. And uh way that’s what happened, you know, and but the good thing is and for people listening is that it can get worse before it gets better. Likely hormonal reasons for that. But it typically does get better and and that’s a really important thing to to remember as well. And these other things get better like your testosterone uh increases and renormalizes back to you know uh because you know your age I mean you should have testosterone screaming out of your ears you know and so my sex drive was almost non-existent. It was at 290 and it was almost non-existent. Like had all the symptoms. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and that’s the thing. I’ve seen that I’ve seen that in um you know, late teenagers, people in their early 20s, you know, men in their early 20s. And I had I had one patient who’s um sort of different different um uh different um numbers in the US and also in Europe and in Australia. So this this uh young man was in in Australia. So but his free testosterone free testosterone for for a healthy 25-year-old man should be between 600 and 900. If you’re earlier in puberty actually should be could be higher than that. Um he was 18 so he actually should be on the high end of that at the very least. And um his free testosterone was 180, right? So it should be it should be above 600 at at the minimum, right? And just two months into it, um he was nearly 500, you know, so he had sort of two and a half times uh increased and he wasn’t even he wasn’t even uh strict, you know, he was um he was mo he was eating a lot more meat and a lot more fat. So that’s going to improve your cholesterol. Cholesterol is the precursor to testosterone. You’re also going to have more zinc. Most abundant forms of of zinc are in in meat. um especially, you know, number one would be uh oysters, number two would be beef. And uh you need zinc to make testosterone. You’re also now reversing a lot of the insulin resistance that’s going to improve testosterone as we discussed before. And um and there’s there’s a few other other things as well. I’m actually going to do a post on this sort of all the different different mechanisms that that go into this. But um but either way, you know, even though he was just eating a lot more meat and eating a lot less of the junk and also, you know, the phytoestrogens and and the hormone disruptors from the the plants and the all that sort of stuff, that’s going to cause a huge burden of of um harm to your your um testosterone production in men. And for all these different reasons, even though he was having having sort of, you know, have rice, you know, 2 three days a week or some other things here and there, was eating a lot of meat, but wasn’t certainly wasn’t uh 100%. Wasn’t even 100% ketogenic all week long. It was just most days, maybe, you know, couple nights a week he’d have some rice or something like that. But even then, you know, his his his testosterone level shot up, you know, nearly two and a half times up. And you So imagine, you know, and that’s just 2 months. And so imagine long term and imagine uh if he’s actually strict with it, it’s going to make a huge difference. Yeah. And like people who have um inflammatory bowel diseases like Crohn’s oritis, they um almost always have very low testosterone. So it could be that a lot of people have lowgrade inflammation in the gut reducing their their testosterone as well. Like because I’ve heard of a lot of stories of people Yeah. cutting out gluten, cutting out sort of the most inflammatory things for the gut, and their testosterone just skyrockets. But I totally agree with what you’re saying, too. Like, I think animal fat specifically is like a huge huge lever. Like, if you’re not getting at least 100 grams, I would say, like your testosterone will be being hurt by that, as a man. Yeah. and and espe and and if you’re eating vegetable oils, the seed oils or the you know even even olive oils or coconut oil, they have those phytoestrogens and that and that signals your liver to not make as much cholesterol and cholesterol is what testosterone is made out of. Basically all your um your your hormones certainly your sex steroid hormones are all made from cholesterol. Vitamin D is made from cholesterol. um testosterone, estrogen, progesterrogens, minerals, gluccocorticoids, everything made in your testes, ovaries and and adrenals are derived from cholesterol. And so if you’re artificially suppressing your cholesterol, and that’s what you are doing by having these these plant oils or taking medications uh or eating fiber which will draw out your bile which is made with cholesterol because cholesterol is very important and you use it for all sorts of things. you are artificially lowering your cholesterol. If you just fast and don’t eat anything for five days, nothing in or out, your body will elevate your cholesterol because your body needs that cholesterol and is using that cholesterol. And so by by eating these other things and reducing it, that is artificially reducing it and you’re you’re reducing it down below a level that your body actually wants you to be in. Another carbohydrates will actually lower your cholesterol typically because it changes you from a fat burning metabolism to a carb burning metabolism and so you’re running on those carbs that you eat as opposed to running on the fat that you’ve stored which is our natural design. And if we are transporting our our fat from our tissue to our liver to make into glucose, glycogen, and ketones, we need more LDL and HDL because those are the carrier transport molecules to transport that through the blood. can’t travel through the blood otherwise. Uh fat and cholesterol can’t. So that’s something that that goes up naturally anyway. And so when you just go ketogenic or you just fast, your cholesterol levels are going to start going up because your body is now able to utilize and run on your fat but also start transporting your cholesterol properly and your fat properly and proteins properly because HDL and LDL actually transport proteins as well as fat and cholesterol. And so by eating carbohydrates that will again artificially lower your cholesterol because your body’s not able to access your fat stores, not able to utilize and access your fat and cholesterol stores. So that again is is artificially lowering your cholesterol which will then lower your um your testosterone production and other hormone productions as well. Yeah. Yeah, because so many people talk about how like, oh, avocado, that’s like a perfect, you know, that’s like a perfect like, you know, it’s like it’s like the new eat your greens every day, but it’s like avocado, you know, but that avocado oil is still deficient in vitamin D. It’s still deficient in vitamin K2, and it contains phytosteriles, you know, that are going to lower your cholesterol, you know, and potentially, you know, play a role in a lot of diseases, you know, that we have. Like it’s still a small amount which is probably why most people do fine. Like it’s nothing compared to like rice brand oil. I recall I recall that was the highest. Like that’s just the most unnatural oil you could imagine. Yeah. What’s that? Sorry. Oh. Oh, I was just gonna say like if you just search up which oils contain the highest amount of phytosteriles, they’re often the most typically unhealthy oils. So that’s just like I don’t know, food for thought. It’s like corn, it’s rice brand, it’s like all the most unnatural oils. And then olive oil, avocado oil are sort of near the bottom, but still have some. Yeah. And and also people don’t realize that there are there are other toxins in there. I mean, fruit does have toxins and avocados and grapes will kill cats and dogs if they eat them even in small quantities. So clearly there are toxins in there. And when you pick those fruit when they’re when they’re green, when they’re not ripe, they’ll have four to five times the amount of toxins in there. So even if they’re things that we can normally deal with to, you know, to a certain extent, unless we overdo it, um then we can detox things to a point. Um if you’re eating these things when they’ve been picked green, which is all produce coming from the grocery store, nothing’s going to be picked ripe because it will spoil too quickly. is being shipped all the way across the world typically, especially if you’re trying to get it in in a in a northern hem, you know, northern or southern extreme and in the winter. So, they always pick it green and they’re going to have a lot more of these toxins. Avocados, in particular, have four or five times the number of oxalates. So, it can have well over 200 milligrams of oxalates per avocado if they’re picked green. And um you know, that goes down to about 50 if you if you pick it ripe. So, that then that’s that’s something we can handle. we can actually tolerate about 50 mg of oxalates a day. You know, you get buildup over time, but that seems to be sort of the threshold that um below that we can we can sort of tolerate that. Um but you know, so that’s one avocado and no other source of of oxalates in a day if it’s picked ripe. And if it’s not picked right, you’re already you’re already quadruple where you want to be. So you start, you know, having problems with that. Yeah. And my and my dad, he had like a calcified portion of his shoulder actually. Um and uh yeah, so basically clearly like um sorry. So basically oxalate definitely looked like it played a role like with my dad and um that all went away when he went carnivore as well. Hey, good. he has pain and it’s going away very slowly and then he just ate some dairy and it had like a massive flare. So like this arthritis for like 40 years and it started when he was eating like a ton of potatoes and bread together. So um like we suspect that that was like a major factor in how he got it in the first place. So but we’re just being patient. Yeah. Well, that makes sense. How how long has your dad been doing this now? He’s been doing it for about seven months, eight months or so. Okay. Yeah, that’s good. It’s a good amount of time. Yeah, we know dairy caused a lot of problems for him and he only removed that about three months ago. Okay. So, yeah. Yeah, it can be very pro-inflammatory. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Is that because like Oh, sorry. No, no, no. Go on. I was just going to say, is that because like the casein protein is similar to the gluten protein and there’s sort of like an interaction there or maybe a variety of reasons. Um, that that’s a that’s a really good question. I don’t I don’t know the exact mechanisms of the inflammatory response, but there there are a number of studies showing that that case proteins are inflammatory. Um, I haven’t looked into the mechanism though, but that that’s um that would be interesting to look at. And um and that would that you know just already would sort of make sense if it if it does sort of have a similar action to to gluten because um now we have casein in our in in just human milk, but it’s much much much much lower than in cow’s milk and and goats milk and human milk is sort of about similar. And this is why if a child is below the age of one year old, it’s not really safe to give them cow’s milk because it can it have too much certainly not, you know, as as a as a main staple of their diet because that casing can actually build up and and cause um sort of an overloading action can be life-threatening. So, um there’s definitely something there. Um it would be interesting if it if it did have a similar action with the gluten because um it does seem to cause leaky gut as well. And so, you know, gluten can cause that. Um, casein can cause that. Glyphosate can cause leaky gut. There’s a lot of things that cause leaky gut. But, um, casein can. And so, there there seems to be some sort of inflammatory u mechanism. Um, A2 milk is much less inflammatory than A1 milk. And A2 milk is the sort of the the type of milk that we were getting from cows sort of 12,000 years ago, 10 12,000 years ago when we started uh domesticating uh cattle for for their milk. And so that’s sort of what we started, you know, getting used to and and people build up a bit of a tolerance to in some in some areas. And um but it’s still inflammatory. It’s it’s not it’s not completely uninflammatory. It’s just it it’s just less inflammatory than the A1. Um but also drinking milk, you’re going to raise your carbohydrates. You’re going to raise your blood sugar. You’re going to raise your insulin. just running on carbohydrates actually causes oxidative stress and free radicals to form from just burning carbs in your mitochondria. They they send off free radicals and um oxid cause oxidative stress. So ketones are just a much cleaner burning fuel. And so when you’re when you are running on carb that will increase your inflammation, your oxidative stress um and just your blood sugar going up. That’s that’s pro-inflammatory especially for um arthritis. it can uh that glycation can actually damage the the cartilage and so that’s um it can damage all the the the blood supply and the you know because it’s in your bloodstream so it’s damaging the arteries and veins and things like that but it’ll damage the capillaries and start reducing blood supply to certain areas which will cause damage and cause damage to your organs and because you have such little blood supply to your your um cartilage in the first place you know you really don’t can’t afford to damage that any further. And u but it also damages um the cartilage itself. So we see when we’re taking out bits of cartilage when people have like a joint replacement or just have a bunch of loose, dirty, damaged cartilage that they’re sort of vacuuming out, they look at that, it’s heavily glycated. It’s heavily damaged by sugar. And uh even in discs when you take out damaged disc degenerative discs from the spine or or parts of a disc like a ruptured disc is compressing nerves and you have to take that out uh to relieve the neurological compromise that uh we there are studies showing they have studied that and found that they’re just full of sugar damage. You know that takes years. I mean it’s not going to be like you drink some sugar you’re like oh it’s damaging I’m glycating my my shoulder. It makes it worse. But that would be the acute inflammation. But long term that is a major major contributor to arthritis and and um cartilage breakdown. I mean or you can have just direct damage. I have physical impact on my kneecaps from doing kickboxing since I was 14 that damaged the the the cartilage on my kneecaps. I have no other cartilage damage in my entire body. I have no other arthritis anywhere else even, you know, long career in sports because I basically never ate carbs. I was carnivore for most of my career inadvertently and just sort of naturally stayed away from high carb diets. Never I was never a believer in carb loading before a game. I never felt as good as if I even fasted. Like I often wouldn’t eat dinner at all the night before and I certainly wouldn’t eat the day of a game. Um even if it was a nighttime game, I wouldn’t eat the whole day. And um or if it’s a tournament, just no, I’d never eat on the on the day of a of an athletic um performance. And so I just felt better like that. So, you know, thankfully I I just sort of naturally steered away from those things that could destroy my joints. You know, I have like these marathon runners that are just sucking down carbs and gels and they’re just absolutely destroying their joints and they’re they’re going to be just, you know, in a bad way um for the rest of their life as a result of that. Yeah, that’s what I find funny, too, because people like hold up athletes like they’re the healthiest people out there and then you’re like, “Oops, these athletes are getting diabetes often.” And it’s like, “Wait, wait, wait. I thought exercise is what prevents you from, you know, getting diabetes.” It’s like it’s like there’s no amount of exercise that’s going to combat like the damage from slamming these energy gels, you know, and hard bloating, just eating like pounds and pounds of pasta before marathons. And a lot of these marathon runners I’m thinking about specifically like they’re inducing massive massive stress uh from this very enduranceoriented running, you know, so that probably plays a role too, but Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah, the high impact from running, if you’re if you’re doing sort of heel strikes, you that barefoot running sort of thing is is sort of taking um is gaining popularity because it’s a more natural way for our body. That’s how we’re you know, we’re not born with shoes. We didn’t evolve with shoes. And so, you know, people, you know, running typically would be you’d be more on the balls of your feet because you wouldn’t you would be running over, you know, sort of hard ground, you know, striking your heel first. And that’s that puts a lot of impact down the joints down in the in the knee and in the hip. You know, if this were your leg, um, you know, you’re sort of hitting down with everything straightened out. You know, you’re taking a lot your cartilage is not supposed to take impact, right? So, you’re supposed to supposed to have this joint and this flex. So, when you you’re running on the on the balls of your feet, your your knee is striking when you’re or your uh foot is striking when your knee is bent and your hip is flexed. So, you’re sort of cushioning sort of that spring motion. you’re not taking a direct damage to your cartilage. And so that seems to be bad. And and that I’ve always done that because all the sports that I’ve ever played were sprinting sports. I was always on my toes. I was always at a sprint. I was always, you know, in that in that um u you know that natural more natural way of running as well. So that can absolutely do it. And often and if you’re car bloating, your blood sugar is 200, you maintain because you run this marathon and um and you’re doing these heel strikes, you know, mile after mile, like yeah, you’re going to cause a lot of damage. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was talking about like diabetes in addition to joint pain though, like theated cortisol from all that marathon running a lot energy gels. Oh yeah. And the sugar. Yeah. Yeah. like metabolic syndrome and things like that. Yeah, absolutely. Well, they are. I mean, and that’s and that’s showing up in these in these studies, you know, that Professor Tim No and others that are that are studying the difference between ketogenic athletes and carb carb athletes. And they find that as you get more keto adapted, you know, typically past 6 weeks to 3 months, the the keto athletes are outperforming the carb athletes, not only in distance, but also sprinting uh anorobic and uh you know um strength uh critical power sort of lifting tests. So any way you you can move your body athletically u the ketogenic um athletes are are outperforming the carb athletes. And in addition to that, the carb athletes are all pre-diabetic. And that’s what they found. These elite world class athletes, they’re all pre-diabetic or even diabetic. And then this like, well, what the hell’s going on? So, I mean, you talk about your longevity as as an athlete. It’s never going to happen. I mean, you know, there’s the people that, you know, in the NFL or other sorts of sports and they do steroids, which which really damages their health long term, especially in the amounts that they typically would use them. And, um, you you know, you can die from these things. you have very permanent um damage to your body and your organs, etc. um for the rest of your life if you if you abuse these things, especially certain certain ones that are worse than others. And um but you know, to them it’s just like, well, look, I I’ve got this is my job. You know, I I I need these to perform or or even to get into the into the NFL in the first place. you know, some people need to do that uh or feel that they need to do that and then to maintain that performance and athleticism, you know, they feel that they need to take these elicit substances which will damage their health and they just say, “All right, look, I’m this is it. I’m I’m going to have a short life, but I can make a bunch of money and I can take care of my family. I can set them up.” And that literally people say that. And um and so you know that’s that’s one thing you know you talking about like steroids okay that that will objectively improve your performance but carbs don’t I mean they say that it’s like well I’m going to get the best performance or whatever like that’s what we used to think but now we have we have hard evidence with top worldass athletes you know studied by you know professor no uh professor and professor Sweeney uh professor um sorry Mweeny and professor um Finny, you know, I mean, they they’ve p published multiple large scale studies in humans with elite level athletes or even recreational athletes showing this trend constantly. You you certainly don’t lose performance cutting out the carbs. And after about, you know, 6 weeks to 3 months, then you start seeing this massive improvement in uh athletic performance as well by being ketogenic. And so anyway you slice it, you know, you’re making you’re making your life worse, you’re making your health worse, you’re getting pre-diabetes, you’re damaging your joints, you’re reducing your longevity, you’re reducing the longevity of your athletic performance, and you’re not even getting a benefit. You’re not even like you’re not even improving your athletic performance. So it’s like there’s really no excuse uh to to eat carbs as an athlete now. They just think it’s like the only way. That’s all they know. You think, well, I just need to destroy my body to perform. This is like, you know, putting the ultra powerful but dirty fuel in my car, you know, just so that I can go as fast as humanly possible, you know, they just don’t know that there’s this other way to do it. Yeah. Yeah. And it’s it’s a shame, but you know, then people say it’s like, well, you know, everybody all the athletes do it this way, so obviously it must be good. And they’re like, “Well, no, because everybody in the tour to France used to smoke four or five cigarettes before they started the race every morning because they were told that cigarettes were good for them, too.” Back in the 40s and 50s. You can look that up. That was that was a regular thing. And then we’ve realized like, “Oo, actually that’s a bad idea.” But if you went by that paradigm that you say like, “Oh, well, all the top cyclists all smoke cigarettes because that’s better for your lungs.” Okay. Well, that’s not the case. And they figured that out. Well, now we figured out that carbs are not actually the best thing for athletic performance. That’s been proven in human trials with elite athletes and recreational athletes. So, it’s um it’s just not the case anymore. And more and more professional athletes, I mean, I was, you know, I played professional rugby for 10 years and five of those years were ketogenic carnivore. And I I can tell you for a cold frozen fact that I’ve never had athletic performance um you know ability to put on muscle, ability to get in shape and ability to perform uh better than when I was carnivore, ketogenic carnivore. Never. It was night and day. It wasn’t even a comparison. And um and a lot of a lot of athletes are are seeing that now. Especially rugby. A lot of rugby players are getting into that now. And and they’re having massive massive improvements in their performance. And this is not this is not some of it that people are keeping it to themselves because like you if you’re a pro alete and you d you naturally double or triple your testosterone level like you you don’t want everybody to know that you know that’s your secret weapon but there are people um that are coming out publicly you know the top rugby league team in Australia uh the Penri Panthers um you know they’ve they’ve won the grand championships for like you know four or five years in a row and and they came out publicly last year after they won they’re saying like, yeah, basically most of us are doing carnivore or at least animal based. We’re eating just tons of meat and we’re not eating carbs, you know, and um and so that’s um you know, that’s something that’s that’s becoming more wellnown, but there’s not this this huge ad campaign to back it because there’s no money behind it. There’s no industry. Whereas if you know like wheat bicks or something like that sponsors these major rugby teams, it’s just like you know this is it’s all going to be pushing about how you know carb um carbs are so great for athletic performance because there there is a product behind that you know but you know for people that that are in the know I mean the thing is all you have to do is just try it you know I mean give yourself three months as an athlete and um you know and just see and you’ll see and if it look if you’re not getting the same performance you want to add back in carbs go ahead. I don’t I don’t care. I’ve got no no dog in the fight. Um but I just know from my own experience, it’s night and day difference. And there are top athletes around the world that are doing this. I mean, even the there’s a Chris Froom who is a fourtime I think he’s three or four time winner of the Tour to France, he does keto, right? So, you know, some of the top Iron Man competitors and ultramarathon runners, they do keto or even full carnivore. So, you know, the idea that you need carbs is just completely outdated. It’s behind the times. Yeah. And the thing is, I’d say for me, it actually took probably four to six months for my athletic performance, not to recover, but to like exceed where it was at. And I was going through like a lot of changes because at first I was so such a chronic snacker, always hungry, chronically hungry. I think I forgot to mention that I was eating realistically six meals a day and I was food was always on my mind and like I could not go like I’d get super cranky if I went like more than four hours without food like the night of course. So as like I was sort of widening this amount of time that I could go without food took like literally like four months for me to get to two meals a day. Like it was a long process, but once I got to kind of two, one meal a day around there, that was when my energy levels really exceeded what they were before, especially endurance. Like I was playing soccer and um I was able to just go way longer. Like everyone else was just completely exhausted, but I could just like I was ready. I could just keep going. And um yeah, I was actually fasted at that time, too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All the hormones associated with fasting maybe add like just an extra little extra little kick kick to that athletic performance. Yeah. Yeah. I mean I I always felt better uh playing fasted training fasted. Always, you know, and um so I always Yeah. I always told people to like always play hungry, you know. You want you want that sort of I don’t I even even before I ever knew anything about this stuff, I always I always sort of put that in that relation like you know, look, we’re out there hunting. you know, our body needs that energy. Just go go out and kill something. That aggression that like go fight, go expend energy. Go do something. You can you can go get food and uh and then if you eat, your body just says, “Yeah, look, we got it. We got all our energy. We don’t need to do that. Everything’s slow down. Rest and digest.” And so that’s how I sort of thought about it correct or not. That’s how I thought about it. And that’s and that’s what I experienced was if I if I ate on the day of a game, I would I would never have the same uh performance. I would not feel that I had the same energy. I’d not feel like I had the same aggression, the same drive, the same sort of edge that I normally had in rugby. And um so, you know, if I if I were if it was, you know, sometimes I maybe have like a bit of breakfast or just a little bit of something if I was like felt like I was really hungry or something like that, but it this would be 7 8 n hours before a game. And and even then I wasn’t happy about it. And so I would sort of do that and be like, “Yep, that was a mistake. Not doing that again.” So, um, it’s, uh, yeah, certainly something that I’ve noticed. And then, of course, you know, being carnivore, um, um, it’s made a huge difference. Massive massive difference. Yeah. And like your digestive tract is well known to be an extremely energyintensive organ while it’s digesting. So like it would make perfect sense that your athletic performance would go up when you don’t need all that extra blood flow diverted to your colon instead of your muscles. Like I heard on ultramarathons um athletes will sometimes actually start like ripping out blood because they’ve robbed so much blood flow to their colon for so long to give to their muscles that it actually starts dying and shedding off. I’m not I I would have to confirm that, but like there’s a major sort of tugofwar between the colon and the muscles uh for energy. So yeah, like idea that you just eat a huge meal and you’re just digesting, your body’s just breaking this thing down and then you’re like, “Oh yeah, I’m just going to do like this extremely intense sport at the same time.” Yeah, makes perfect sense. Hey guys, just want to take a second to thank our sponsor, Carnivore Bar. I don’t promote many products because honestly all you need to be healthy is to just eat meat. For those times that you’re out hiking, road tripping, or stuck at work and you want nutritious snack that is just meat, fat, and salt if you want it, the Carnivore Bar is a great option. So, I like this product not because it’s just pure meat, but also because I want the carnivore market to thrive as well. And the more we support meatonly products, the more meatonly products there will be available in the mainstream. So, if this sounds like something you’d like to get behind, check it out using my discount code Anthony to get 10% off, which also applies to subscriptions, giving you 25% off total. All right, thanks guys. I was I was going to ask too, you know, you said that um you know, you had this huge improvement in your testosterone. You tripled your testosterone level, your your acne went away, you know, sort of what what else happened? You know, what what else did you notice? And sort of what are you eating now and how are you feeling? Yeah. So, I like experienced like a huge very varied variety of benefits. Um, yeah. People actually were like, “Oh, he’s just going to say this thing fixed carbore. This thing fixed it.” But it truly did fix basically every single thing that was wrong with my body at the time. Like I had loose teeth, specifically this one mer completely firmed up like rock. And there was a lot of sensitivity when flossing around it and that completely went away. Mhm. And my breath went away. Um, my body odor mostly went away, but it comes back when I eat something that I shouldn’t. So, there’s that. Boils went away. Keratossis pilaris. It’s about 85% gone. I would say it like fades very. It was so slow that even after three months, I was still debating whether I was imagining it or it was just a placebo. Then after six months, I was like, “No, this is definitely real.” Yeah. And especially since I went into this partially for that as like a main reason. That took like a lot of a lot of faith to be honest after like it took a long time to see results on that. Yeah. Yeah. And then um also I before I was always sort of like I didn’t want to eat till full because I didn’t want to gain weight. Like I really liked being lean and I knew if I ate till full I would gain body fat. Like I’m not prone to being super fat but I definitely would be like a little little chubbier. And I realized on this actually I can just eat as much as I want truly and I will never ever gain body fat. In fact, my waist actually shrunk. Even though I was extremely skinn abs, it actually shrunk. Um, and um, I don’t know, like, it’s hard to explain, but on the sides of the abs, there’s sort of these dips in that I thought were potentially due to sort of a reduction of fat on the inside of the body rather than the outside. like the actual definition of like my stomach and that whole region didn’t really increase to a large degree. It was all on the inside because the waist the waist shrunk down yet it kind of looks roughly the same on the outside if you see what I mean. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you do get rid of visceral fat, you know, all the internal your abdominal fat which is which is really good to do. And so, um you know, that’s that that probably is a sign of that. I mean, you can see Yeah. the way sort of shrinking down and even though you’re not sort of external fats, you know, not really there, but everything sort of skinny skinnies out and slims down, that’s probably is getting rid of some of that internal fat. And that’s the other thing, too. You have to so to fi thin thin outside, fat inside. And that’s you have these marathon runners. They’re eating all these carbs and they’re and they’re very lean but their internal um you know compartments are just completely stuffed with fat in you know visceral fat and um intraorgonal fat which is really harmful and even intramuscular fat you can get myostitosis uh from this and this is something we noticed in in medicine you see in MRI you see someone that has all this fatty infiltration into their muscles called myostattosis and and we understand that that’s a very strong link with someone metabolic illness you know someone who’s metabolically sick and um it’s going to have poorer outcomes with different sorts of treatments or even surgeries. And that’s something that we’ve noticed and that’s something that comes up in conferences. I was at um I saw a talk at a spinal conference where they talked about how you see this this these fatting infiltrates in the in the parispinal muscles or the ilosis and um that is a poor um marker of um outcome for spinal surgery. if someone has a lot of pain and things like that that that this surgeon he found that that um in his practice the people that had more myiotosis they they had worse outcomes with surgery. They had they still had the pain they still had these problems and and um and so basically he sort of ruled them out that if they had if they they were metabolically sick and had a lot of fatty infiltrate in their muscles that he he wouldn’t recommend surgery for them because it wouldn’t be as helpful. And so you know that that myiotosis that’s marbling in our steak and that’s how we get that is by um is by feeding them a bunch of carbs and sugar which increases insulin and forces fatty deposition into anywhere that it can get access to including your muscles. And uh that is exactly what happens to us as well. We absolutely get fatty infiltration and fatty deposits in our muscles um from doing the exact same thing. And and people don’t understand that or they think that it works differently in cows and ducks than it does for humans. And no, that’s actually a very known consequence of eating carbohydrates and raising your insulin is it forces fatty deposition in inappropriate areas such as in your muscles or around your organs. And so, you know, going to this way of eating, just cutting out the oats, even though it’s not the worst thing you could ever eat if you’re only eating a small amount, um, it it’s certainly going to make an impact and get rid of that that inappropriate fatty deposition and just make you a lot healthier in general. Yeah. You don’t want to become like a Wagu Wagu cow. You don’t you don’t want that for Wagyu humans, you know? That’s sort of what we are. Yeah. Yeah. sort of coobe coobe humans, coobe people, you know. Yeah. So, yeah. Um, yeah. Oh, sorry. No, no, go. Um, my dad, he didn’t see an increase in sort of definition on his stomach for the most part. Yet, he went from a 36 to a 30 at his just like all this internal fat. Like, none of it really on the outside. like maybe he can do something later on to peel that last bit off, you know, if he wants to, but he probably doesn’t need to for health reasons. It would just be for like aesthetics, vanity reasons. Yeah. Well, you know, it it’ll keep happening. I mean, he his body will get down to to a stable body fat percentage that his body wants him at. And sometimes when you depending on how much, you know, fat fat tissue you have and that’s something that’s that’s normally um sort of pretty stable from childhood. So if you if you sort of ate this way uh early on, you’d have sort of less fat cells. You sort of be lean or more lean throughout the rest of your life. But if you if you ate more carbs and sugar early on in your in your life as a as a baby or a toddler, you would actually deposit more and you’d actually grow more um fat cells in number that are going it’s going to be more difficult to get down to like a really lean shredded uh level unless you sort of um you know worked out really hard and and did other things potentially. But you know what I found especially well so for me personally I I just checked my my body fat percentage the other day and I you know I’m not really regularly in the gym maybe that’s you know a couple days a week just lifting weights and things like that. Not hugely active at the moment but I’m trying to get back into more four or five days a week sort of lifting schedule and and getting some some hills and sprints and things like that. Um but just being not as active, you know, going to the gym a couple times a week. um you know I’m around 9% body fat without really trying you know it’s just it doesn’t get worse than that you know and um and so but when I’m you know very active playing rugby lifting weights regularly making it a point to to to stay active I’m you know 5 6% body fat easily without trying and that’s eating maximally you know and you know the points you know I’ve got veins on my abs and things like that you know it’s just like you know it’s like what people try really hard and starve themselves and do all these sorts of things and you know sometimes take you know medications to do that. That’s just that’s just how my what my body does. Now, um if your if your dad is doing a lot of sprinting, if he joins like a sports club, starts playing soccer, starts playing rugby, starts, you know, actively doing something to a high intensity, pushing himself maximally, or join, you know, one of those boot camp classes that he does that, you know, 3, four days a week, you know, eating this way and working out to that extent, he’s going to get shredded. He’s not going to have a problem with any excess fat. You know, it take a couple months, but he’ll he’ll be he’ll be pretty jacked. Um, so I’m sure he’ll he’ll be fine if he’s able to stick with it. Yeah. And um, what’s it called for? I think he’ll be faster than me actually because I was sort of kind of restricting for a very long time to stay lean. So once I could eat as much as I want, I actually gained 10 pounds. Um, I don’t know if that was muscle or if that I definitely know some was fat. But the thing is around six months in it just started falling off again. And now I’m like even leaner than I was being kind of hungry all the time. Like a lot leaner and I don’t even stopped running. I barely work out now. Like I do absolutely nothing. Yeah. And I have more like less body fat. Like it’s crazy because my friend was saying, “Well, you were just low testosterone before because you were too low body fat.” But it’s like now I’m even lower body fat than I was before. And yeah, exactly. Because like mainstream bodybuilding advice would be like, oh, below 10% body fat, your hormones are just going to tank. You know, you’re just gonna you’re just going to feel terrible. You’re not going to be able to sleep. But that’s just because they’re eating a really high carbohydrate diet and they’ll just be so incredibly hungry and starved, you know, at 10% body fat. Well, well, and also they you think about how those bodybuilders do that because, you know, Vince Garanda, Serge Nubé, you know, those they didn’t have tanks in their in their testosterone levels and things like that. You know, Garand was um you know, it’s called Iron Guru. This guy had one of the best natural physiques in history. You bet one of the best physiques in history, natural or not. Um and he was really outspoken against steroids. You thought they just they if nothing else, they just made unnatural looking physiques. is like that doesn’t look like a person, you know, that’s not bodybuilding. That’s just that’s, you know, that doesn’t look good, you know, and um and so he was very much against steroids. And he never had tanks in his in his testosterone levels because he was eating steak and eggs, steak and eggs, steak and eggs, steak and eggs all the time. And and he was shredded and jacked year round. Um and so now bodybuilders doing that now, how they get down to under 10% body fat. I just I just eat the way I eat. I’m under 10 percent body fat. I work out and I go down to 5% body fat. It’s just naturally, completely naturally. And they the way they are doing it, they’re they’re eating all this carb load So they’re shack stacking on tons of fat. They’re getting intramuscular fat as well, which is why when they start losing fat, they go ketogenic. They cut out the carbs. They also cut out the fat. They go very lean protein. So still eating a ton of protein, they’re restricting their calories, and they’re restricting fat. and restricting carbs. And so what that does, they start leaning out. It destroys their hormones because now their their cholesterol is just completely jacked and they can’t produce testosterone properly. They’re not they’re nutritionally deficient because they’re not getting the nutrients that you need from fat. And you not getting the vitamin D from from that either. And vitamin D is a precursor to testosterone as well. And so they are cutting all this stuff out. They’re actually going ketogenic, but lean meat ketogenic. They’re probably giving themselves, you know, borderline protein poisoning. It’s why they’re feeling so sick and miserable at the point of of their contest. And they’re like, “Okay, now I’ve got to eat something.” Because this is actually hurting them. Is actually causing harm to just eat lean uh protein uh with nothing else. And um so they get lean and now their muscles sort of shrink. They’re like, “Oh, you have you’re going to lose muscle if you’re going to lose fat.” No, they didn’t have that muscle in the first place. They had mytosis. I guarantee you that. And so they have this fatty infiltration because of all the carbs and sugar that they were eating to bulk up. And then now that’s going away. So now you’re getting that fatty infiltration is coming out of the muscles as well. So it looks like you’re shrinking down, but it’s actually the fat going away from the inside of your muscles. And anybody who doesn’t believe me, if you’re in bulking phase, you’re eating a whole bunch of carbs and sugar and crap like that as a bodybuilder, go get an MRI. You will see fatty infiltration in your muscle. I guarantee it. I’ve seen it before. I will. And it’s that’s just the mechanism. That’s how the physiology works. So that’s why they’re tanking their testosterone. Whereas you and I have low body fat percentage naturally because we’re eating properly and the way we’re eating is also benefiting our testosterone levels. Um the reason I think that you actually, you know, put on muscle but put on a bit of fat but then all of a sudden came back the other around the other side and started losing fat was because of metabolism. If you’re undereating, you’re telling your body that you’re in a famine. You’re telling your body that you’re it’s winter, that there’s just not enough food available, and that your body needs to just shut down and and um store your fat and uh and just survive, right? And then when you start getting food, your body says, “Okay, well, we need to store this because, you know, we’re still in a famine. It’s still winter. Yeah, maybe we got to kill, but we still got to be conservative.” But then all of a sudden you get into the summer months and the game is more plentiful and you start eating more regularly and your body says, “Okay, hey, we can pull back now.” And then, you know, so at first when you’re eating more, your body’s going to is going to store that as energy. You’re going to try to, you know, put on some muscle, but you’re also going to put on some fat and you’re going to keep your metabolism low so that you don’t waste this energy so you can get through the lean times. But then when your body’s convinced that it’s not a lean time anymore and your leptin starts normalizing and these other hormones start normalizing, then you’re going to start putting on muscle and you’re going to start losing that fat as well. And so now your body knows that you’re not in a famine, you’re not starving, you’re not fasting and um it’s not winter and you’ve got plenty of food available. And so you know you’re going to maintain a low body fat percentage and high muscularity just by eating normally. Yeah. And this might sound dramatic, but I feel like I was starved of red meat like pretty much my entire life. Like I remember as a kid being like, “Can we eat steak?” Steak was always my favorite food. I was always thinking about steak. Steak on my birthday. And then sort of when I myself permission to just eat steak as much as I want. It was like this feeding frenzy. I was tracking like how I was eating 5,000 calories a day for like a couple months. Like it’d be almost impossible not to gain weight with that level of like food intake. Like it would definitely be possible. But my body was just like I am now getting the ultimate meal I’ve always wanted and I’m going to take full advantage. You know what I’m saying? Yeah. That’s Yeah. And uh well and then that’s part of it too is that you can be nutritionally deprived and your body tracks nutrients. It doesn’t track calories. And so it’s it’s looking for those nutrients. And if you if you are quite nutritionally deficient, um you’ll find that you you do need to eat more and your body wants you to eat more. And then if you’re getting more energy, you know, with those nutrients, okay, well, you’re going to store a bit of those too. That that can happen as well. And then when you when you get to up to nutritional, you know, competency, then that that can also slow down as well. Um, this is why especially early on when people go carnivore, including a bit of organs, a bit of liver, I mean, not much, you know, a couple ounces, you know, a few days a week is is totally fine. Um, some need a bit more than that. You know, they just have a bit of higher nutritional demand, especially when your body’s healing, you’re recovering, and you’re sort of rebuilding all these nutrients. Um, you know, having having a bit of organs and things like that, uh, can be helpful. Most people will catch up on their own just eating muscle meat. most people. Um, but what I found in testing thousands of people over the years is that they can take a while and that and they feel a lot better if they add in a bit of organs or maybe even supplement, especially if they’re really low on certain things. They can feel a lot better a lot quicker um getting those nutrient levels uh back up to snuff. And um and you also find that adding in a bit of organs, a bit of liver, a bit of kidneys, people reach satiation much quicker as well because you’re having so much more nutrient density, vitamins and minerals that come with these organs that are much more concentrated in the organs that when you have a bit of that with your meat, you find that your body says, “Yeah, we don’t need as much of the meat because we got all these nutrients as well.” because your your stomach actually has receptors that track up your vagus nerve to your brain and and they track and keep track of the actual vitamins, minerals, proteins, and fats that are in your stomach at that time. And this is why when you’re hungry and your body wants these nutrients, things taste better. But as you’re eating, they taste slightly less better until finally they don’t taste good at all long before your body’s ever absorbed these things. They could still be in your stomach, not even made it to your small intestine, let alone be absorbed in digestion. and and your body’s already saying we have enough. How does it know that? Because it has these receptors in your stomach that can track that. And so when you have a bit of organs, you have a bit of liver, something like that, your body says, “Yeah, look, we have enough now, you don’t need to keep eating.” And so that can be satiating as well. Yeah. I found with organs like I ate liver at the beginning and at the beginning tasted good, but then after a while started tasting really bad. And when it said that, I was like, “Wait, this is kind of like this is kind of like spinach, you know, like why would why would why would I eat something that doesn’t taste good?” Like where where is of survival advantage, you know, in that. So I was like, I must have gotten enough. So I just stopped and I will crave maybe an ounce once a month and that’s about it. Yeah. So I like in my personal opinion, I think people should go off taste. Like if you’re taking these capsules or you’re eating it frozen, like swallowing it without tasting it, you’re not allowing for any of that to occur because like there is a lot of copper and vitamin A in beef liver. Yeah. No, there definitely is. And you know the other thing too is that people um people see and I I found out myself was that um cooking liver really t changes the texture and the flavor radically and so it tastes much more you know metallic when it’s cooked. It’s much tougher sort of mealy. It’s it’s not it’s not as pleasant of a flavor. And even sometimes you could be really you know needing those nutrients your body says actually that tastes good so that’s fine. But when you cook it much less, you sort of cook it like a medium rare or like a rare, just sear the outside. It tastes way better. And I honestly it freaks people out. But like I think raw liver tastes fantastic. Tastes way better than cooked liver. And you know, you see these these um huntergatherer tribes, you know, when they take down a kill, like the liver is just like it’s like this prize thing. Like everybody gets a little bite of it, but you pass it around because everybody wants it. It’s so good. And they’re eating it raw, you know? They’re just eating they’re just eating that that raw liver. And I found that it tastes way better, you know, from a texture and a flavor point of view. I mean, the the analogy I use is is um tuna, right? We have like tuna sushimi, tuna sushi, you know, it’s raw tuna. It’s very light. It’s delicate. Has a nice flavor, melts in your mouth. Um and and then contrast that with canned tuna that’s been cooked. It’s it’s the same fish, right? And yet one tastes very nice, light, and delicate. And the other is just, you know, you know, card. It’s just chewing cardboard. You know, it’s not it’s not fun. It’s not nice. And that’s the same thing with liver. It dramatically changes the texture and flavor when you cook it. So when I eat liver, I often eat it raw. I don’t eat it that much. And you know, my I’m able to maintain optimal levels of all my um you know, vitamins and minerals without it. But um you know sometimes I will have it and and I enjoy it, but I I I typically eat it raw or if I do if I do cook it, it’s it’s it’s a quick sear on each side and leave the inside rare. Yeah. No, I’ve actually heard a lot of people talk about that and I think that makes sense. Um, yeah, cooked liver tasting bad, but maybe you need those nutrients so bad that, you know, it’s because I’ve definitely gravitated to a lot more raw or less cooked meat over time. Like, especially rendered fat. I I now almost exclusively prefer the fat in steaks. Um, I’ve made bilong out of fat and then just frozen and I’ll just eat slices of beef fat. Nice. Um, yeah. Like we bought a freezer that goes down to negative 28 so we can freeze fit, kill the parrot, eat like raw salmon, raw mackerel. I don’t like cooked salmon really. I like raw salmon. Yeah, it’s good. All my steaks like I just sear just sear the outside. Like I don’t even like I and I not only did it taste better, my digestion was a lot better. I had a little bit of this like burping thing that went on for a while and then that that just stopped when I started eating the meat more rare and I wasn’t doing everything well done. And I suspected that was because of vitamin C. Like maybe I didn’t have scurvy but maybe my optimals were still a little bit suboptimal. You know what I’m saying? Yeah. Yeah. And um you know having Yeah. you’re not going to get scurvy, but like you’re um because the thing is from a protein standpoint, you know, the reason that you get scurvy without vitamin C is is because vitamin C helps uh it catalyzes a reaction that hydrayzees proline and lysine. And so you need hydrayzeed proline lysine to make tightly bonded collagen. Uh but you get hydrayzeed proline and lysine from eating meat. Uh it’s only you get the unhydrayed from eating plants or you know making a denovo. So, it’s um you don’t actually need the vitamin C. Like, you’ll you won’t get scurvy with with no vitamin C. You’ll still not get scurvy as long as you’re eating meat. Uh but there’s definitely but you know you we do see vitamin C show up in other places, you know, like our macrofasages, neutrfils, things like that. They’ll have have little packets of vitamin C. So, they’re used for something. Um but uh not for scurvy anyway. And uh and you do get some you do get some from meat and you and you definitely get a lot from liver. liver has more vitamin C than most apples. Um and um like a lot more like four or five times more and um you know but there also just these all these other nutrients and and you know testing people’s blood work before during and you know longterm on carnivore it’s it’s massively people are massively deficient in these in these nutrients. Some of them will show up as normal for the reference range, but the reference range is just an average for the local community and most people are malnourished. And so you’re get taking an average of malnourished people. Now everybody looks like they’re not malnourished because if everyone’s low in B12, now all of a sudden no one’s low in B12 because it’s an average. That goes for zinc and magnesium and, you know, folate and, you know, selenium and all the rest, vitamin D. So all of these things are um are obscured by that. Anyway, and some people are just low on that scale as well. But when you look at, you know, there’s studies have been done that actually looked at what optimal reference ranges for uh different vitamins and minerals and those are very very different and they’re generally much higher than than the than the the lab ranges because every lab will have a different range as well. So you you go to one lab and you’re normal, you go to two other labs and you’re low maybe and you know other things you you may be high or normal. So it’s like well which one is it? You’re the same person. do you have a deficiency or not? You know, or do you have too much or not? Um, so that’s not useful looking at averages. You want to look at the optimal ranges. And when I look at that, I mean, everybody’s low. I mean, it’s just it’s almost no one is in an optimal range unless they’re heavily supplementing with someone or on a carnivore diet. And um, even ketogenic diets, it can be lower. Even just drinking coffee on a carnivore diet, they can be low because of these anti-nutrient effects that that plants have. Coffee is no no exception. That’s my main problem with coffee. It’s not like, oh, well, the caffeine isn’t, you know, well, that that’s that’s a neurotoxin and that’s not great for you. But my main problem with with um with coffee or tea is that they have they’re just rich with anti-nutrients. You know, they have lectins, they have tannins, they have fitates, they have sapinins, they have all these things that we avoid spinach and celery and kale for. And yet we say, “No, we like the effects and so that’s okay.” Well, it has all these things as well. And these anti-nutrients will block out the absorption of a lot of of your vitamins and minerals. So, um it’s it’s almost impossible to get up into optimal ranges of zinc and magnesium if you’re drinking coffee, even on carnivore, even with supplementation. Um it’s usually you have to you have to remove the coffee first. And I have seen people um on different medications and basically it’s like they’re not taking medication if they if they have them around if they have coffee around the time they take those medications. Like my thyroid medic uh patients were on thyroid medication. If they have coffee, we sort of figure this out by trial and error. If they have coffee within 2 hours of taking their thyroid medication in the morning, it’s like they they’re not taking it at all. They absorb almost none of it. And so their blood tests show up as as deficient even though they’re on thyroid medication. and then we just delay their their coffee by 2 hours or even just stop it if they can. Spikes up, slams up. And I I I see this again and again. I’ve seen this dozens and dozens and dozens of times. So that’s that’s my issue with that. But most people when starting on a carnivore diet, just coming from a natural diet or even a ketogenic diet, they they will be deficient in a lot of these things as compared to the optimal ranges. and and longterm on carnivore, they’ll typically get up, if not into the optimal ranges, very close to the optimal ranges if they’re eating grain finished. If they’re eating sort of more grass finished, pasture-based sort of stuff, there’s never a problem unless they have a malabsorption issue. and and um so even if they have like MTHFR, other sorts of things, if they’re eating sort of grass finish, all that sort of stuff, or maybe even just liver a couple times a week, you know, if they’re doing the grain finish and everything’s improved and and dramatically better, but they’re not quite in that perfect optimal range, little bit of liver puts them over the over the line every time unless they have a malabsorption issue. And if you have a malabsorption issue like pernicious anemia which is way more common than people think or even partial pernicious anemia where you have you know some partial damage to your body’s ability to absorb B12 you’re still not going to get enough. And I have people that are not drinking coffee not on any medications. They’re only eating beef and they’re adding in liver 3 4 days a week. Their B12 will not come up without an injection. And so that’s and then I checked them and they had pernicious anemia. that had the antibodies for penicious anemia. They were very suppressed. They were almost non-detectable, but that’s because they’ve been on an autoimmune diet. They’ve been eating carnivore, which suppresses that down. So, but you know, it was still there. And so, we saw that and um so they need to take sublingual B12 or um uh get injections. So, but most people starting will be low and so you’re going to catch up quicker if you add in a bit of bit of organs or a bit of uh supplements and things like that. But typically you’ll catch up long term. So it’s it’s really up to you. Um but I I like the same way I I like the sort of the taste thing. You know, if liver tastes good, your body’s telling you something. You know, have some liver and after a few bites of that, typically it’s like, nah, I’m over it. And that’s fine. And then, you know, few days later, try it again. And um if that’s what your body’s telling you to do, then then great. And and um that’s a a good way of catching up and maintaining optimal levels of your vitamins and minerals. Yeah. And um I definitely suspect that I had a malabsorption issue because my B12 was only about 150. Wow. That’s way I was actually quite a lot of meat like beforehand. I think I was eating about I remember 300 grams of lamb every single day. So like I’m sure a bunch of other nutrients were not being absorbed properly. It seemed sort of like once I removed those oats and the waffles and the vegetables, it sort of released sort of this this blockade that was preventing preventing absorption and suddenly I could take it all up. Yeah. Yeah. So like I had like I had a lot of like weird diarrhea that had gone on for quite a long time and I always thought that that was sort of at the root of some of my issues, but I could never fix it. And I suspect that’s partly why I was so low in many of these nutrients. It was just Yeah. Yeah. True. Yeah. If you’re not not getting time to digest them and absorb them. Yeah. That can happen. And it actually the thing is the diarrhea actually went away when I started kind of restricting my calories a little bit. And um looking back on it, I’m thinking basically your body doesn’t want to starve. So if you’re eating less food, it’s going to absorb more. But the only reason it’s not absorbing it is because what I’m eating is bad. So this is actually another reason why restricting calories is so dangerous. You know, you’re removing your body’s ability to sort of pick and choose what it wants. Do you get you what I’m saying a little bit? So that was partly why I got so sick, ironically, when I lost weight. I think because I was suddenly forcing my body to absorb all this stuff. Yeah. And um Yeah. Yeah. And even just just getting out of your getting out of your own way and just eating naturally, your body knows what it’s doing and and your body will will do what it’s what it’s supposed to do. So if you just just eat fatty meat until it stops tasting good, you cut out everything else, your body typically takes care of the rest as long as you don’t have a malabsorption issue or or anything like that or the meat that you’re eating is is of good quality. And um you know that might that might mean including a bit of organs and things like that, but just eating naturally and your body sort of figures out the rest usually. Yeah, it was like next test was 300 and then now I’m like 450. But it’s like it’s been a year. Like this stuff takes time. And you’re in the US? Yeah. I’m in Canada. I’m in Canada. Do you know do you know what units you guys use there for B12? Pam moles per liter or pograms per milliliter like POLL or PGML. I think I converted to the US US metrics because those are the only ones that I ever hear talked about. So it’s like it gives me some number, you know, in the metric system. I have no idea even what they’re talking about. So yeah. So um well either way either way that’s still low. Um you might actually have like an actual malabsorption issue as as a or or you know some sort of methylation issue where you just require a bit more in your diet. So um livers probably is a good idea. Um, and if you’re not able to bring that up, you know, in like really about four to six weeks if you add in liver and things like that, just 3 days a week, if that’s not significantly higher or or up above, you know, if it’s in pa moles per per liter, PMOL, um, then you want to get it above 800. So 800 to,200 is sort of the range that you’re aiming for. And in US terms, it’s PG/ML. You want to be between,00 and,600. And you can also just check your homocyine. if your homocyine is below 7, you know, that that’s actually okay. Um, but you know, if your if your B12 is 1,200, but your homocyine is 10, like you need to keep going. Um, so you can try that, but you know, if your if your B12 hasn’t come up to to a more optimal level with the addition of of, you know, a few ounces of, you know, like, you know, 50 to 100 grams of liver 3 days a week after 6 weeks, there there’s something going on there with a malabsorption issue. you might actually need to you you might actually have something like a partial pernicious anemia um and or some other sort of issue that’s causing you to not be able to absorb all the B12 because it does take a long time but but B12 being water soluble it it usually goes up a bit faster and so you can usually catch up a bit faster. So with my patients, um I can usually get them into more optimal levels in in four to six weeks with proper diet as long as they don’t have any malabsorption issues. And um so yeah, so if you add in liver, you know, 50 to 100 grams of liver uh for 3 days a week for the next 4 to 6 weeks and get your B12 tested again, if it’s sort of stagnant and it hasn’t really come up or hasn’t really gone up above, you know, 800 for pa moles or,00 for pogs, then um then I would think about malabsorption issues and you might want you might have to think about doing like a sublingual B12. But you any supplement you ever take would be uh you want the methylated form. So methyl B12 which is called methylcobalamin um sometimes just mecobalamin mecobalamin which stands for methyl and um typically a normal a normal range uh for the sublingual is about you know um 1,000 to 2,000 micrograms per day and then you just test and you see where you’re at after a few weeks on that and um yeah so that’s something to think about but um that’s the other thing too is that is that some people feel that yeah they’re getting better, but they’re not quite where they want to be. Um, and then you you test their levels and they might actually have a malabsorption issue because you after a year on on carnivore without with everything else taken out, you know, presuming you don’t drink coffee and things like that. um you know, you you really should be in that optimal range, you know, at this point. If there wasn’t anything else going on or you know, if you’re the meat that you’re eating is is um or if you don’t have a methylation issue that you typically might need a bit of a bit of um uh liver or something like that, if you can’t get pasture-raised, grass-fed finished beef and lamb and things like that. So, something to think about. And so sometimes when you when you see that um and then you correct that either just adding in a bit of organs or like the sublingual B12 or whatever um you can actually just level up again and just feel even better than you did before. Yeah. But like the last test was about three and a half four months ago I would say. Yeah. Yeah. I I wasn’t eating any liver and I was kind of overcooking my meat at that point. And I know introduce speech to all this too as well. So um yeah, okay, I’ll do that. Um I don’t think was going like I don’t think I was just perfectly healthy in terms of my physiology. I was just consuming a bad diet. I think I definitely had like some like some additional sort of issues going on and it would make sense those would take time to sort of resolve keratossis pilaris like especially the version I had that was very severe that is heavily tied to malabsorption of vitamin A and like things like that. So basically like nutrients that are contained within fat. Yeah. Yeah. And I’ve noticed from trying things like seed oils, like really like I don’t know, not to be too uh too graphic, but like I’ll immediately get diarrhea if I have anything. Any any sort of over any sort of like Yeah, that’s why I can’t eat at restaurants. It’s like pain. Like I can I can feel it like immediately. And I thought I honestly kind of believe that like the whole seed oil thing was like, oh, it’s just like the oxidation products. It’s like smoking, but there’s not it’s not like your body’s going to instantly, you know, feel it. I thought that was a little bit fake, but it’s like, no. And it and it does apply to plant-based oils a little bit as well. Like it’s not just oils from seeds. Like any oil that’s been cooked. Fried avocado oil like it’s pretty similar. Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah. It um oxidizes very quickly. Um all that stuff. So the ones that are liquid at room temperature, coconut oil is a bit more stable, but it still has all those ph um the phytosteriles and and other sorts of things as well, which you don’t really want. Um so Pascal, thank you so much uh for coming out. It’s it’s been an absolute pleasure. I really appreciate you sharing your story with everybody and uh taking the time to do so. Um where uh can people find you? Are you on social media? Is there anything that um you know that that people can go and and see more of you if they want to? Yeah. So, um I’m just on Instagram. Um it’s it’s my name, Pascal_JS. Um I just made a mistake. Pascal Dehan. And um I put up YouTube a YouTube video there about keratossis pilaris. And I’m thinking of making more videos on sort of yeah, my experience with carnivore. Uh but yeah, that’s all I have right now. Okay. Thank you. Yeah, not a problem. Well, we’ll put that up in the description. people can can find you there. Uh, Pascal, thank you so much. Really appreciate you taking the time. Yeah. Yeah, no problem. Okay, see you later. Thanks everybody. Thank you for joining me. Please do uh go follow uh Pascal and see um and follow his work and u please do hit the like and subscribe if you haven’t done so far and we’ll see you next time. Hey guys, thank you very much for taking the time out to listen to what I had to say. If you like it, then please like and subscribe to my YouTube channel and podcast. And if you’re on YouTube, then please hit that little bell and subscribe, and that’ll let you know anytime I have a new video out, which should be every week, if not more. And if you could share this with your friends, that would help me get the word out and let me know that you like what I’m doing. Thanks again, guys.