Welcome to the Plant-Free MD podcast with Dr. Anthony Chaffy, where we discuss diet and nutrition and how this affects health and chronic disease and show you how you can use this to optimize your health and happiness both mentally and physically. Hello everyone. Thank you for joining me for another episode of the PlanFree MD podcast. I’m your host Dr. Anthony Chaffy and today I have a very special guest Dr. Nasty Yoshic who is a uh prof well professional bodybuilder and trainer and is here to tell us about his insights into um bodybuilding nutrition and training as um as well as many other things. So Dr. Dr. Yos, thank you so much for for coming on the show. It’s really a pleasure. uh thank you for inviting me and uh yeah this is a great opportunity to um work with you together which I really appreciate and uh let me introduce myself in few words. So uh I uh have always been interested in uh optimal development of my being meaning my intellectual spiritual and physical development and I have found the answers for that first of all in philosophy. So I studied philosophy and I have a PhD in philosophy because this was for me the best way to optimize my intellectual development. Now when it comes to my physical development, I couldn’t find any better choice than to inquire about bodybuilding. Now um although I didn’t study formally I studied on my own accord and I did a lot of research from the very early age about anatomy physiology biomechanics biochemistry nutrition and uh as a result of all my uh studies and research I’ve put those findings and those that knowledge into practice to prove it and it worked very well for me. And uh in the meantime I published 10 books uh on training, nutrition, lifestyle change, uh training for beginners and similar and also I spent over 40 years in bodybuilding. I competed 46 times. I won 17 titles and uh I trained over three and a half thousand clients so far and help them to get in the best shape of their lives. Now what is important and I always say that to a lot of people who send comments and uh ask questions on my YouTube channel. I’m always talking about optimized development of muscle size and fat loss. People are always trying to find some uh uh combinations or some comfort zones or try to you know make life easier in a way by asking can I do can I train two times per week or maybe three times can I eat this but can I add that this is too much protein and well you said not much carbs but again I remind everybody every every time I talk about these subjects I’m trying to give an answer that will help you to again optimize so I’m giving 100% answer trying to help you understand that you should be doing the best that you can always across the board in anything you do in life. So, uh why would why would you do less than 100%. I mean, what is life all about is an opportunity for us to be the best that we can be. Absolutely. So, you you mentioned there um limiting carbohydrates. That’s obviously something that that I see a lot. There’s a lot of big push now eating hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of grams of carbs. 600 800 grams of carbs a day if you’re trying to be a bodybuilder say you have to have carbs to put on muscle. And uh when I try to tell people about this about ketogenic diets they say oh well but you can’t build muscle without carbs. So what are your thoughts on that? Well you see my first reaction is a smile and laugh because this is absolutely not true. I mean if we go back into into fundamentals of human physiology we will understand that carbohydrates are uh macronutrient that has no nutritional value. There is nothing there. It’s a pure energy. So uh we use carbohydrates only to store energy. We don’t do anything else with them. Now what is the most important for developing muscle size? It is actually protein. Protein comes from Greek word protos. Pro proton in in physics meaning essential number one the most important and this is why the that macronutrient has got that name. So this is how we came to protein. Now protein is so essential that there is no not enough explanation and research to prove that not only for muscles but for all other tissues like bones for example all internal organs, heart, lungs, digestive system, kidney, liver, skin, hair, nails, everything that people are so so uh interested in. And they’re all all these tissues, hormones, nerves, nervous system, everything is made of protein. So that that macronutrient is so essential that should be really taken as the primary macronutrient. Now if we remind ourselves for example from anthropological findings that uh humans homo sapiens that according to some experts has been around for some 400,000 years. Uh most of that time humans simply didn’t have access to carbohydrates. So we evolved around the natural environment around the circumstances that we have been exposed. This is how we evolved our physical existence our bodies our anatomy and carbohydrates are very very limited throughout this huge span of of of evolution of homo sapiens. Now how did homo sapiens evolve? Can anybody imagine that that our ancestors didn’t have enough glycogen? They had to have glycogen in their bodies for the purpose of surviving, fighting, hunting, running away. So how would you do that if you’re not full of glycogen? Where the glycogen comes from if there is no rice, uh pasta, uh cereals and all this. So humans develop the ability to to create glycogen from protein, from amino acids and also ketones. This is through the process of called gluconioenesis that liver actually executes in order to convert uh amino acids and ketones into glycogen. But the thing to understand is via gluconioenesis you will always create as much as you need not more than that. Mhm. And your your glycogen stores will never be 100% full which they don’t have to be for for example successful bodybuilding workout. Now back to your question, four, five, 600 grams. We know Jay cut, thousand grams of carbohydrates a day. I mean it’s this is simply insane. We don’t have the ability to store that into the muscle tissue. Therefore, extorogenic compounds like for example insulin are necessary in order to drive that huge amount of carbohydrates into the muscle. Nobody knows how much of those carbohydrates will end up in the muscle and how much will spill over into the fat cells. We can only guess but uh I think that carbohydrates are the main culprit of all chronic diseases that we are exposed not just now but since the discovery of a agriculture I write it in my books as well and uh chronic diseases even cancers they didn’t exist before introduction of agriculture I went to British museum a few times doing my research on my own for example studying the mummies there and if you if you observe them properly. Usually people come and say, “Oh, they won’t. Look at this. They are few thousand years old.” But it doesn’t matter how old they are. What matters is what they’re talking to you. They’re talking volume. Look into their jaws. For example, the jaws will never develop enough because they didn’t have enough protein in their diet. Egyptian mummies, most of them have not eat. The ones with the remaining teeth have only few which are rotten. Uh if you look at the the skin folds around their bellies is huge. So they were all obese. This didn’t come from eating eggs, fish and meat. This came exclusively for eating overwhelmingly huge amount of grains. So uh this is an answer in general. But back to the question about bodybuilding, do you really need so much carbs? No, you don’t because you don’t grow from carbs. You need protein to grow. Carbohydrates are there just to fuel your energy. But I always say to people if you’re using if you’re eating them you should be only eating the necessary minimum. Everything more than that is going to go into the fat stores. It’s going to cause hyperprouction of insulin and it’s going to cause havoc on havoc on your metabolic level. Yeah. I I you hear that that um that that phrase going around that you need a caloric surplus in order to gain muscle. But, you know, just with the word surplus means surplus to demand is there’s more than you need. And so, wouldn’t that necessarily go into fat? And so, if you’re eating mass quantities of these things past your demand, would wouldn’t that necessarily go into fat that you’d then have to burn later? Absolutely. Absolutely. Another another thing that I also uh tackle in my books on nutrition is that u that game of counting calories. I mean calories lie. They are not calories not a calorie. You see if I give you a diet Yeah. If I give you a diet of 1,600 calories, which is made of five 400 grams of carbs, and I give somebody else or you three months later, the same caloric intake, but this time from 400 grams of protein, what do you think is going to happen? There are two different universes there. In first occasion, you’re going to get fat with 1,600 calories because you’re going to be producing so much insulin. There is no other way. Those cars will just be taken into fat cells. If you are on 400 grams of protein, you will be converting energy from your fat stores. You’re going to be losing fat and if you need glycogen as much as you need, the body will convert from protein into glycogen via gluconioenesis. So this caloric intake that never works. I mean people are asking me about they come with with whole spreadsheet of mills and calories and they’re so immersed into that mathematical equations and calculating in their minds. I mean all right I don’t want to go there scientifically but let me just tell you very simple example Arnold Serga Serge Nubre Albert Beckles Robbie Robinson whoever was there Frank Z they didn’t count calories they didn’t even know what calories are so how did they manage to build amazing according to me never surpassed bodies and physics how did they do that never counted calories he never did any much about anything anyway Okay. But he was following his instincts and they were all on high protein, medium to lowfat diet. Most of the year they would eat some carbs occasionally, but once the things become serious before big shows immediately they will switch to the best possible diet for muscle growth and fat loss, which is without any doubt high protein, medium fat, low carb. Yeah. So is that I mean and and I’ve spoken about this too that the golden arrow bodybuilders like Serge Nubre uh Arnold uh Vince Garanda who sort of even a bit before that uh it was it was steak and eggs steak and eggs steak and eggs. Serge was like six pounds of horse meat a day. Arnold dur in his uh video on the movie Pumping Iron he was when he was talking about his meals he’s like I’m not like these guys where I can just eat four pounds of meat at one time. I’ve got to have 10 oz steak here, another one here, some eggs here. I’ve got to split it up through the day. But the only thing he mentioned was was meat and and he didn’t he didn’t say anything about carbs. Yes. Yes. Absolutely. And they were all big. They were huge monsters. Absolutely. Yes. I mean, I I I was lucky to to go and meet SURA myself in two occasions. I ended up in Paris in 82 and 83, I believe. I spend each time I spend one month in his gym uh which is called Subra International Fitness Center in Belleville in Paris. And uh I mean one one only had to see Serge no in front of him to understand the uh the mag the magnificent not just huge but body which was out of this world. He was he was so big. He was so pumped covered with veins. The skin was like a almost non-existing. And that man stands in front of you and that talks everything. So uh how did he do it? I just did a video which is going to be uh out tomorrow morning at 10:00 UK time on uh his diet. And uh I didn’t believe anything I read before because people were saying six, seven, eight pounds of meat today. Some would push to 10. In reality it was six. Uh he said it himself but I just couldn’t believe it because I was then um completely deluded in Mike Maner theory of heavy duty training training three four times per week some huge weights eating 60 70% of carbs maybe five six times a day I was 112 kgs but a lump right I was not I wasn’t obese but I was fat full of water strong okay and uh then when I went there I was completely shocked to see that almost so many of them in the gym. They looked amazing. They were ripped. They were big wanes popping out all the time and they were all on high protein, medium fat diet like Sumera. And I saw him eating as well. I never saw a man eating so much meat in one sitting. It was probably around three pound of of steak. And he just ate that and nothing else with it. So when I asked him, “Do you do you eat vegetables at all?” He said, “No, why would I deter a I’m not a rabbit.” It was very funny. And I asked him about, “What about eggs?” He said, “Eggs, they are fantastic.” I said, “How many do you eat?” I said, “I don’t eat eggs.” “Why?” He says, “I don’t like them.” What are you going to say? There’s no answer to that, right? You’re talking to a god. Yeah. Yeah. And then I asked him to say about fish and he says, “Yeah, it’s great. You can eat fish. No problem.” I said, “How much do you eat?” He said, “No, I don’t eat any.” Why? I don’t like it. So and then interesting thing I I forgot to mention that in the video but now just the thought like an arrow just flies in front of my uh mind. I spoke to his wife as well. She was beautiful woman. I think she was um about 45 46 when I when I was there. Jaclyn she won many competitions bodybuild female bodybuilding but in those days women were simply beautiful. They were very feminine and lean and the bodies were fantastic. And she was very lean, very stunning, beautiful woman. So I talked to her about diet and I said, “What about fruit? Do you eat fruit?” She said, “Uh, yeah.” She said, “I have an apple per week.” I said, “Sorry, a day.” No. She said, “Maybe once a week.” So this yet another one. How how women stay in shape. And from my experience, I trend so many of them. Women and carbs simply don’t go together. And the moment they cut the carbs out of the diet and switch to high protein, medium fat diet, women change dramatically. Not in months, in weeks. So yeah, this is um this is true. Golden era bodybuilders all follow more or less the same diet which was meat and eggs that was introduced by Vince Gerondo. uh Vince wasn’t scientific in the modern understanding of science but uh experiments that he did were extremely scientific because they had great results and he advised his people uh his ultra cut diet known as such uh was three meals a day and every meal was the same any type of meat and eggs. When they ask him how much, as much as you want, but no butts, you will only eat as much as you can. When I say that to people said, “Oh, Nash, but this is a lot. I can eat.” I said, “No, you’re not going to eat a lot. Try try to have two pounds and three, four eggs on the top. Let me know when you finish it.” And then they called me. I said, “I couldn’t finish it.” So, I said, “Eat three times like that and you will see. Your body will tell you how much you need to eat.” And now this is another chapter in the in the universe that is all about nutrition. That I think the the very wrong thing that we have all succumb to in the modern times is to calculate food not to feel the food. We should eat when we are hungry. This is natural uh chain of events. You need grein. You need hormone to tell you that you’re ready to eat, that your digestive system is ready to absorb. People are just stuffing themselves all the time. This is how they develop visceral fat, for example, which is detrimental for metabolic health. But if you eat when you are hungry, you you won’t eat six, seven times a day. Stick to eggs and meat and you’re going to end up eating maybe twice, maybe once, maybe three times, depending. But allow your body to be ready to absorb. Don’t force it. And we have lost that instinct. I say to people, you need to develop the hunger for protein after a heavy, let’s say, back workout or chest workout. What are you hungry for? Can you can you can get to that answer? Don’t think about it, Phil. Do you want to eat pizza or you want to eat a steak? So once we awake those feelings and instincts within us, I think things are completely different and very very beneficial for us. Yeah. Well, that’s really interesting that that you coached that and that the the golden era guys did that intuitive eating because that that’s exactly what I found uh for my medical patients that this and I’ve also made the same suggestion to athletes that I’ve worked with. Um same thing that you just eat intuitively. Your body’s going to tell you you have these signals that your body your body understands how uh how much nutrients you need. Every animal in the wild instinctively knows how much to eat and when to stop. We’ve actually discovered uh more recently that we have receptors in our stomach that actually track up the vagus nerve to the brain and calculate the macros and micros that are in your stomach. And so in real time, your brain can tell what nutrients are in there long before you ever absorb it in your small intestine. And so just by by that alone, your brain will downregulate the taste response and then all of a sudden it just stops tasting good. And you get to a point where like gh I just I I can’t do this anymore. And I’ve had patients try to push that and say like, “Oh, I can’t do this meat diet because it takes me two hours to finish a meal. I have to force myself.” And I ask them, “Well, does it taste good at first?” And they they invariably say, “Yes, that it tastes amazing.” But they get halfway through the meal and it’s it’s really hard and it takes them another two hours. And I just point out that they were finished two hours ago because their body was telling them under no uncertain circumstances that they needed to stop eating. So that’s very interesting that they were doing the same thing which is um um you know just eating eating intuitively. That’s that’s really interesting. Yeah. But this is only going to happen if you eat staple foods. If you eat protein and fat if you eat carbohydrates that will never happen. So what is the proof? Everybody has proven that in their lives guaranteed. Everybody who is watching how much ice cream can you eat while watching movie on Netflix? A limited amount. You can eat a big tub, one kg ice cream. You can’t stop. What about popcorn? What about all these biscuits and stuff? Why don’t we stop? Because we don’t have developed those regulators, those sensors that will tell you it’s enough. I suspect the reason why we overeat all this junk food and carbohydrates is that the body is constantly looking for protein. And if it doesn’t find the protein in those junk products, the body will allow you to stuff yourself more because simply is waiting for the protein. If there is a little protein, the body will wait for more. And this is why there is nothing to stop you. I always say to people, I give you 10 boiled eggs and I’m going to sit in front of you and wait. Let’s see how many you’re going to eat. They’re looking at me like, oh, let’s try four on the fifth. Most of them collapse. They can’t eat the fifth one. Yeah. So, what about 10? 10 eggs or 60 grams of protein is not a is not a problem. But it’s very hard for anybody to eat it. Why? Because eggs are full of everything that you need for developing life. The only environment in which every single life on planet happens is actually an egg. Even human life. So what is in the egg that we eat? Chicken eggs for example. We have six grams of protein, six gram of fat. Where are carbohydrates there? They’re not necessary. They’re not essential. They don’t exist. There is no such a thing as essential carbohydrates. We have essential amino acids, essential fatty acids. But what happened to carbohydrates and all these five 600 grams per day when they’re not essential? Why would you do this? You see, from wherever you come to this uh problem, you will always come to the same result. you have a non-essential macronutrient which is literally energy full uh food and nothing more than that. There is nothing essential in them. This is why you if you eat them, if you need them, you should really be on the necessary minimum. And I have found that for bodybuilders that is never more than 100 to 150 grams per day. Not not even every day. These are bodybuilders who have great metabolism who train almost every day. But for majority of people, including myself, uh I rarely eat carbohydrates. If I either made them once per week, maybe when I’m training legs, I would have uh maybe 70 grams before workout and maybe another 50 grams after. Even if I do that, because there are many weeks when I just don’t eat carbs at all and I don’t feel that I need them. If I feel, I will have them. But they are so random that I can freely say that my diet is mainly protein and and fat. Very good. Um, yeah, I’ve actually come to very similar conclusions about why we overeat with carbohydrates and that junk food. Um, certainly, you know, our bodies are looking at at this whatever’s in our stomach and saying, “Hey, there’s no food here. You know, there’s no actual nutrients here.” So, it’s it’s giving you those those hung hunger signals still. And that’s why things like protein and fat are so satiating because that’s what your body’s looking for. Your body doesn’t track calories. It tracks nutrients and it wants those nutrients. And so, um, it’s not saying, “Well, wait, we’re up to 1,600 calories. Better slow down.” You know, it’s it’s saying, “Hey, we’ve only had 20 grams of protein today. We’ve only had 20 grams of fat and we’ve had no vitamins and minerals.” Like, get on the get on the page. Also there’s um there’s hormonal changes that you know carbohydrates will raise insulin. Insulin blocks lipolysis. So now you can’t generate more um energy and your blood sugar will start dropping to a point that you feel lethargic. You can’t make ketones and you feel pretty crummy and you go and chase those carbs again. Um it also blocks leptin which is a satiety hormone which now will not be able to um reach your brain and your brain thinks that you’re emaciated and we’re starving and our blood sugar is dropping. So it panics and said hey we need to eat. We need to eat. we need to eat. Um there’s also very clever food scientists that work very hard to find compounds and chemicals that mimic some of these um natural flavors that are literally says natural flavorings that mimic those flavors that our body our brain says yes we want those those are nutrients we want but they don’t actually exist in that food and then it goes down to your stomach your brain says yes we want that nutrient it goes into your stomach and there’s nothing there there’s no nutrient there and so now your brain say no no more of more of that and and they become this um highly palatable addictive substance that you overeat by design so that they can sell more product and I’ve even seen them on 60 Minutes the food scientists actually say that’s what they’re trying to do saying here’s this big flavor and it goes away quickly so that you want the next chip and the next bite and the next piece so you get this sort of compulsive uh relationship with eating that food and so they they’ve you know tact I know it’s called um um an evolutionary trap where you have this response that says yes, do that. But it’s something that’s not the original um you know the original pathway and it’s now something harmful to us like this junk food that has been been in basically they’ve sort of taken over those pathways um to co-opt our hunger signals so that we just keep eating and keep eating. Um so I think that um yeah I think that’s done intentionally unfortunately just to just to sell more of these products. I think yeah without any doubt but even carbohydrates themselves they will create that vicious insulin cycle that probably hook you up you can’t get out of it I have people who are especially bodybuilders they say oh mesh if I don’t eat in two hours you start shaking of course you’re going to start shaking because you eat carbs in every meal so welcome to the vicious insulin cycle so your insulin is always up your glucagon is always down so you’re storing But you’re never burning. And here you go. You have to eat every two hours. You’re like in prison. Yeah. The food becomes punishment for you. It’s not I don’t even think about food. I if I eat at 10, my next meal will be like four or five or something like that. When I feel hungry, I say, “Oh, oh, really? I need to eat now.” But I I’m very active. I train almost every day. And I do a lot of work throughout the day. And uh I mean, I don’t want to I want to be slave of food. I don’t live to eat. I eat to live. And this is the principle that has been turned upside down. People should be eating in order to sustain life. They shouldn’t eat live in order to eat. But now food is the biggest commodity. If you if you look across the cultures across the regions in the world is always food. When they invite you food on the table first of all food, drink food drink. So you know food is just necessity. Don’t make the the uh your dimonia as Aristotle would say the final happiness in food. No, it’s not. It’s just one of the things that you need. But uh there are much more important things like your health, your look, your strength, your shape, etc. Mhm. Yeah. It’s um I was I was going to ask you as well, you know, you mentioned how you you might eat, you know, before or after, you know, specifically with carbs, but is there a specific time, you know, say you’re trying to to maximize your physique, you’ve just done a heavy workout, you know, there’s idea of this anabolic window that if you eat directly after your workout, that’s somehow more beneficial than if you ate at another time. Is there any validity to that or is there any specific timing on how you would eat or how someone would eat? Well, there is something known as um folk psychology. What the masses think they psych themselves up and most of the people accept that as as a healthy way of thinking, right? This is called folk psychology. Uh this is about putting your cars before and after. I mean I don’t I don’t really buy that because uh sorry from the experiments that I’ve done with my clients as well. I have I have a guy now who is competing this uh in this few weeks is he already did a show and interesting enough the the the highest volume on intensity workouts I usually done last two weeks before the show when I when I put him on zero carbs. M so he was eating just protein, fat, eggs, chicken, meat. That was the only food. And you should see how the intensity and volume increases immediately. So where are the carbs pre-workout, after workout and I trained him yesterday and he’s like he’s about 105 kgs, covered in veins, covered in veins, no fat at all, shredded everywhere. And I said to him, “So what about the holy carbs? You really need them for energy. How come you’re doing 30 sets today for back where it comes from?” And he’s looking at me. Obviously now you’re thinking outside the box. It’s not very comfortable zone there for anybody. But and there is no answer. Only a smile on his face. Look in the mirror. Look, it’s you over there. Believe it or not, look how you look. So this is the this is the answer to your question. It’s uh it’s arbitrary. Yes, you can eat them before your workouts that may help you a little bit probably psychologically most more than anything else because if you eat as as I occasionally have if you rarely actually but if you eat 70 50 grams of carbs before you work out it will take hours for that to go into the glycogen store. It’s not going to go immediately. So the glycogen that you’re going to use for your legs or back or whatever has been stored previous day, previous night from whatever sources they were out there, most likely gluconogenesis if you are on a low carb diet, but not glycogen before workout because it takes hours for that food to get digested first and then transported to digestive system and then absorbed and then trans transferred into into glycogen. So this is not physiologically that there is no this is why people trend fantastically on empty stomach first thing in the morning. Uh I had about 10 15 questions to that subject yesterday in the comments on my channel and people are saying I don’t have to time train in the afternoon. You’re advising that but I can only train in the morning. Amazing training. What’s the problem? Your glycogen is there. Maybe your mind is not there or your belief system is not there but your glycogen is there and then they do it and this is that was fantastic. I never thought I can do it. So you see how important is that uh is that mind power uh after after workout. Yes, there is the window of opportunity. It was uh was storing more glycogen than usual. It was thought that is around an hour before then they moved it to two hours. Now again they found out that actually that will happen anytime later in the day maybe after 5 6 hours. So it’s very arbitrary you see we everybody is always looking for this um absolute absolute answers which are of of surgical precision. So tell me what to do. How many grams, milligrams, number of sets, weight, this that D, and I’m going to be putting that in my software and perform. As you said, it just doesn’t work. You’re not a robot. You’re not a software. You’re animated being animated. You know what it means? We are different. We have different uh universe within and we look at the universe differently as well. We are reflection of our insights, of our drives. So it’s very important to understand that yes listen to advice try to pick up the principles but you are the owner of your life so you will have to decide about everything on the end of the day. So uh I never I never pretend to give final fundamental absolute universal answers that will cover everyone. Unfortunately a lot of uh body great bodybuilders tend to do that. I’ve done it like that. this is how it has to be. No, it doesn’t have to be like that. You’ve done it. It’s good for you. I’m listening to you. I may try, but I’m not buying it because I’m not you. People are saying to me, commenting on my workout philosophy and all that. Oh, but Dorian Yates did it differently. But do you think you’re Dorian Yates? If you think you are, just copy and paste and you will maybe do the same. You will be amazing. You’re going to be Mr. Olympia. But you’re not. So people are different. You know, somebody like him had to train in the dungeon in Birmingham on his own with a hoodie in the environment which is no air conditioning, no lights, no toilets, nothing. He needed that in order to express himself to the world. Others train in the most fantastic gyms in LA, New York or wherever. So it’s very important to to understand that even that that the that thing with glycogen storage before and after workout is quite arbitrary. You don’t even have to do it. Your body will store glycogen. What do you think tomorrow you’re going to wake up after leg workout and you won’t be able to walk. No, you will be able to walk because the body will make glycogen from protein. So people should relax about it. Another thing about post-workout meal, you know that uh one of the highest spikes of growth hormone is actually immediately after the workout. So you want that growth hormone, hormone of youth, uh very powerful anabolic hormone, most powerful uh fat burning hormone. So you produce that after the workout immediately and it’s going to pick within 30 40 minutes. So what is going to happen if you eat immediately some carbs? you’re going to kill that hormone because insulin is going to overpower growth hormone and you’re wasting the amazing opportunity to build muscle and burn fat thanks to growth hormone after you work out and you see people finish and immediately open some box with some cereals or some chocolate pops or whatever they’re called I don’t know and there stuff I need sugar after training I mean literally the most important hormone that you just produced you’re wasting it now because insulin will overpower it is more more active and more powerful when it comes to receptors on the cells and growth hormone will just go away. This is why we produce growth hormone naturally 2 three hours after we get asleep because this is the the time when insulin is very low in the body. This is when growth hormone find its way to the receptors. But again, you know, comfort is very pleasurable things. So yeah. Yeah. I’ve tried to I’ve tried to point that out to people before that, you know, as a bodybuilder, I mean, it didn’t it didn’t make sense to me that you would have all these carbs because of that effect of insulin on that negative effect of insulin on growth hormone. And if people don’t know, insulin blocks the production and the action of growth hormone. So, it’s going to suppress your natural production doing these big workouts. You’re going to produce quite a lot of growth hormone if you do it right uh when you’re sleeping as well. And you’re going to suppress that if you’re eating a whole bunch of carbs in and around exercise and and you’re training. But then some of these people obviously training for Mr. Olympia and these professional bodybuilders, they’re they’re likely even injecting growth hormone and then they’re eating 400 500 cal calories and carbs a day and and their insulin is just going to be through. Some people are injecting insulin on top of that and and and what is that going to do? I mean, it’s basically throwing money away is what it’s doing. and having to use more and more and more growth hormone to get a similar result. But it’s a it’s a it’s basically just a waste of of money and and some people um have really pushed back against that. Well, if if if that was really a problem, then obviously they wouldn’t do it. So, it’s good to hear hear that from the horse’s mouth. Yes. Yes. I mean, again, I think it’s absolutely unnecessary. Uh what what is very different between golden era bodybuilding and now is that I mean I know for myself uh my first show was in uh 85 I was already training six seven years and it took me time to grow and then time to you know get some decent shape and then get in shape. Uh not just me many other people. Uh if you see Ronnie Coleman for example his evolution of Ronnie Coleman as we know Mr. Olympia was so many years when he finished even 14, 15, 12, 19, it takes so many attempts to develop. Nowadays people start training and in two three years they’re winning shows. So they don’t have the natural progression in development, physical development, not just physical, mental. And imagine all the other systems in the body, how they adapt to to all this immense uh you know development of of muscle tissue and all that which is absolutely unhealthy. This is why unfortunately a lot of them have died because of the sudden sudden development an increase in body mass. Body mass I mean heart will heart heart is not going to like any super heavy body mass regardless is fat or protein or both is too much. I mean I I know people who Nas was my friend Nas Elumati one of the most famous bodybuilders. We competed together and uh he he would go up to 140 kgs in the offse plus and he died from heart attack not because he was taking steroids but because he was in too heavy is too much for the heart. There are other people who are taking steroids but they’re not having any issues but one has to be smart and obviously that time you need time to grow it. It has to happen in stages. So if you do that in two three years by abusing all these chemicals and growth hormone and insulin uh it’s a very very dangerous path to walk. So um I would never advise that never. I mean my son is 25 uh he’s natural. He’s 97 kgs. He looks amazing but he he wasn’t 97 kgs since in six months. He started from 70 kgs when he was playing football. was the age of 16 17 and then every year he will build bill build bill and now he’s he’s exa doing exactly what we’re talking about mainly protein and fats sometimes he would eat carbs just for fun or just to break the bottom of the diet and uh I always ask him to follow his instincts when it comes to diet when it comes to training uh people are saying to me oh but you are talking only about steroid users who can do 30 sets 25 sets This is impossible for a natural. So I’m going to be doing with my son Milos videos in which he will explain to people how he does 30 sets for back in his workout. What is that? It’s not impossible. It’s possible and it’s natural. You probably do the same or many other people. But people when they hear that, oh, they want to do it tomorrow 30 sets. A little bit. Take the principle. If you’re doing seven, eight sets now, bring it up to 12, then to 15. It might take some time, maybe months. Nobody said you have to do 30 tomorrow. Somebody said, “Oh, if I do that, I’m going to do bench press with a empty bar.” Well, well, take your time. Patience is a virtue. So, uh, yeah, there is no easy way. There is no magical formula. And, uh, I never said it’s going to be easy. I said it’s going to be beautiful, but it’s going to be hard. Because as you know and everybody else knows whatever you have accomplished in your life with extremely hard work you cherish the most. Everything that comes easy is is not really valued. So uh you should be happy to work hard. Yes. It’s a beautiful thing. Yeah. Absolutely. And I mean I I certainly uh did find that that I could do quite a lot of these sets and I and I felt great. I felt that I I was getting fantastic results. Um I didn’t didn’t do the the Mike Menser thing where I just work out once and every every 14 weeks and then, you know, then come back at it again, you know, next next blue moon. But um I I did, you know, very high eye volume. I felt that I could I had the recovery when I when I changed to just doing a carnivore diet. I wasn’t getting sore. I felt amazing. I was even doing um you know and you know when we go into the the training side of things we can talk about it but I was doing stupid amounts where I was doing 20 sets of bench, 20 sets of dips, 20 sets of flies. So I might do 40 to 60 sets for chest and you know 20 for for shoulder press and squats and deadlift and things but and I do that every other day. I had a sort of workout routine. And I split had a two-day split and I just every other day and I said like I feel like I can do this. Let’s just see what happens. Let’s just Sunday was my rest day and I did three repeats. So I did that three days a week and so let’s call it you know 40 sets for chest and legs alternate days but I do that three times. So I was doing like 120 sets a week and which is just stupid stupid amount. Um and I just wanted to see what happened. But um after I don’t know four or five months of that was feeling great. had a had um really good results in my physique. Um absolutely just transformed my physique from where it was before. Certainly with the training, but that’s was at the same time that I switched back to my to the carnivore diet. And then I got to the point where I was feeling great and hopped down on the bench and like, “Okay, here we go.” Like, “Oh jeez, whoa, what the hell was that?” And I I obviously done something to my chest. I had had tendonitis. I had to worn something major or anything like that, but it was just very painful. And um it didn’t hurt when I was just doing normal things. But as soon as I started doing bench, it was very painful and I had to sort of work through that injury over the next couple of weeks, but it recovered pretty quickly. But I then it sort of dawned on me like, okay, there is a limit, you know, I I do need to recover. So like 3 days a week is stupid. And so I cut back to to twice a week, but it was still, you know, 40 sets uh twice a week, which was which was pretty crazy. But that was that was no TRT. That was no steroids. I’ never done anything like that. Always been natural. But same thing. thing. I mean, I had that progression. I mean, I remember the weights that I wrestled at as a teenager. Um, when I was in seventh grade, I was 12 years old. I wrestled at uh 110 and then I was 145 and then it was, you know, 155, 165. And then when I was in high school, I was uh 177 um sophomore year and then I uh 190 junior year and then and then 215 senior year. And I was I was actually a light 215 and I sort of hovered in the sort of the 190s for a while until I went into college and really started focusing on weight training because before that I was doing MMA, I was doing rugby, I was doing wrestling. Uh but I really hadn’t hit the gym very consistently yet. And then it was after that when I was 19, 19, 20 that I really started hitting the gym uh four or five days a week and just consistently and just and just hitting it. Um always high protein sort of diet, always ate a lot of meat and then I was able to start getting up into the 220s and I was able to hit 230 and that was that was sort of where I was stable at. I couldn’t really get more than that. And then I went carnivore and then everything changed athletically and I just from a from a rugby perspective I just became just a different just a different level of player and I was already an all-American. I was already playing at a very high level. Um but this just shot it to the next level and and that was the time when I and and that was the thing too because I under a lot because I didn’t realize that my hunger signals were so different and so I didn’t realize how much I needed to eat. And so there’s days I was like, “Well, I just didn’t really feel hungry because I my my hunger signals changed so dramatically.” And there would be there might be multiple days in a row that I didn’t eat. And so I was really undereating. And then um so I would actually lose a lot of weight and I actually would drop down to like 190 lbs and I’ll be way too skinny. And then I I finally realized I just wasn’t eating enough. And I just I said just okay, no matter what, even if I don’t feel hungry as I normally do, I’m just going to eat every And every day, you know, meat and eggs tasted great and so that was no problem. Um, but I didn’t feel hungry in the traditional way, which is why I always coach people to say, “Hey, your hunger signals are going to change, you know, and so you need to relearn those and go by taste. If it tastes good, just listen to that, keep going.” And uh and then I and then I started putting on weight and I I would get up to about 245 and that was sort of my where my body was happiest as a as a professional athlete was about 245 and and quite lean too. You get like 6% body fat. you know, you know, veins on my abs and things like that and I would feel great. My performance was great. Now at 45, I’m what I’m 105 kilos. So that’s about 230 something like that. So u but if I’m in the gym and I’m working out consistently, I will get back up to that 240 245 110 kilos 112 something like that. and and that’s sort of where my body likes likes to be. Um, if I’m really working out very hard, pushing myself, but I also have to eat eat a lot, you know, if I if I’m not able to get all the food, then then I can’t maintain that as well. But but that’s the same thing. I mean, that’s that’s a progression over a long time. I’ve had people say, “Oh, you must be doing steroids.” It’s like, I haven’t actually put on weight in 20 years. So, you know, it’s like the same size. I’ve just been able to m maintain that. And it took 12 years of very hard work to to get there, you know, and then many years of consistent training in the gym and the lifting and things like that cuz my my legs were like tree trunks just because of the amount of sprinting and running that I did. Uh but my upper body was was much more slender. And then when I started really getting into the gym and and pushing that, then I started growing into my frame and and because you know I’ve been 6’3 since I was 16 17 years old. And so it was just I was just very skinny and so um it took a while but then it filled out and I’ve just sort of maintained that and so it’s something you can absolutely do with with consistency and and proper diet of course. Absolutely. Yes. I uh I’ve been probably in the last I don’t know 20 years my shape never changed. I’m always trying to have my six-pack out. My legs are ripped. Um I’m not quite sure how to help you with that. So uh uh I just uh make sure that uh I eat always the same this three meals per day and uh you were on carnivore. I I don’t know what kind of probably some uh moderate carnivore because I don’t eat just meat. I also eat eggs. I like to put some cottage cheese in my eggs as well because I don’t have problem with cottage cheese at all. Uh then uh next meal will probably be uh uh chicken again, maybe put some cheese or eggs again. And the last one usually during the day uh last one of the day would be uh some red meat, beef, whatever it is. And this is what I eat in the last 20 years all the time. I never change it. If I travel, I eat the same. If I go on holiday, I still eat the same. It’s always the same. Sometimes you if I’m in a hurry uh I eat eggs twice a day just you know throw another five six eggs instead of having chicken or something and uh basically these are the nutrients but when you look at everything together it always comes to the same thing which is high protein medium fat and carbs. Occasionally I may have a salad. I don’t have to. It’s just a matter of taste, but uh my staple food is always those three meals. Sometimes I would have a protein shake after my workout, but I need to really feel hungry. I wait always 1 hour after workout. And if I have to stay in the gym for longer, have consultations or anything. Then if I’m really hungry, I will have a shake always in water, whey protein. So this is this is my my type of diet. I I don’t like to be drastic in anything and I’m not a natural fundamentalist. I learned that from other areas of life. So, uh I do stick to my principles though. But I’m always open for new discoveries, new experiments. Um you know, I I like meeting new people because we our our intellectual spiritual side is unlimited. There is no uh limited amount of languages that you can speak. There is no limited amount of books that you can read. So basically uh one has to be very careful not to not to buy that stigma of surgical precision of science. Now it has to be this way because it does not have to be anyway. So the only way is the right way. And uh I speak to people often people are saying but this this weights are light heavyweights lightweight. I said there’s no such a thing as lightweight and heavy. What is lightweight? What is heavy weight? Can you give me the No, this is all arbitrary. The only weight that is is called righte. So this is the weight that will allow you to perform x amount of sets and x amount of reps in order to hit what I believe is the necessary volume and intensity to grow muscle. So nothing is written in stone, you know. I didn’t get this from from God or from Moses or anything like that. Uh that’s my experience. That’s what I know. I tried it on so many people worked fantastically. Maybe it will work for you most likely. So when it comes to diets as well, I I suggest people what to eat and then um always ask them to try and use my advice as a guidance. But the final diet, the final choice of food is obviously down to them because not everybody can can react to to food that the same as everybody else. Hey guys, just want to take a second to thank our sponsor at Carnivore Bar. I don’t promote many products because honestly all you need to be healthy is to just eat meat. But for those times that you’re out hiking, road tripping, or stuck at work and you want nutritious snack that is just meat, fat, and salt if you want it, the Carnival Bar is a great option. So, I like this product not because it’s just pure meat, but also because I want the carnivore market to thrive as well. And the more we support meatonly products, the more meatonly products there will be available in the mainstream. So, if this sounds like something you’d like to get behind, check it out using my discount code, Anthony, to get 10% off, which also applies to subscriptions, giving you 25% off total. All right, thanks guys. Well, I mean, I would definitely say that’s carnivore. So, I’ I’d definitely put you in the the carnivore camp for the last, you know, 20 years. Maybe dirt carnivore. you throw in a salad every now and then, but um you know, but that but that that’s it. I mean, that’s that’s what I’ve been doing as well for the last decade. And for five years in my early 20s, it’s just just me and eggs really. And I’d have a bit of cheese as a condiment. You melt some cheese onto an omelette maybe or a slice of cheese on some, you know, a ground beef patty or something like that. And that and that’s pretty much it. And then just eating eating meat. I don’t Yeah, I don’t have a problem with dairy. Some people do. A lot of people with autoimmune issues uh tend to have problems with with dairy more than others. And so yeah, you know, and so if you do, great. You know, cut that out and just eat just beef and lamb. What you just mentioned, I have in the oven now because I cooked it this morning. Oh, yeah. Nice. Pas with cheese on the top. Yeah. You see? Perfect. Yeah. So, uh when I say salads, I I just do them because uh sometimes I like that, you know, I put balsamic vinegar and olive oil and I just like the taste of it. So it makes me instead of having an ice cream, I would have that. But I don’t have to have it. But what I have to have it is always eggs, meat, chicken, stuff like that. Fish as well. Yeah. So that’s that’s absolute must. There’s nothing else out there. Yeah. Very good. Um, so I was going to say too, this is Well, I I was actually going to I don’t know if you know this, but um, but I’ll ask anyway. Obviously, you know, Serge and Grand and things like that, you know, they were just saying, you know, meat and eggs, meat and eggs. Do you know where they got that from? Like what what was it was it just trial and error that found that this seems to be work that helped people get the the best physique or or did that come from from something else? Do you know? Yeah, it definitely didn’t come from scientific research because that research didn’t exist then. Yeah. Nobody cared about, you know, carnivore diet building muscles in 60s and 70s. But people knew historically, instinctively they knew that um that uh eating meat, eating fish, eating eggs is the best that you can do. I mean if you look if you look historically through development of all the nations and the class system the the higher classes in the society were always their diet was mainly meat and eggs and fish while the rest of the people had grains and most of diseases and most of malnutrition and problems were usually happening in the majority of other people who were socially deprived. But the classes always had that in front of them. Uh it’s not a secret. It will give you immunity. It will give you strength, longevity, vitality, everything you want. So u I think Vince Geronda was the first one to introduce the idea because he tried trial and error. Uh he this diet worked very well especially for these Hollywood stars that he trained. A lot of them came to him. He put them in shape. uh just putting them on three meals a day because you know uh eating meat and eggs three times a day is very difficult. You are not going to eat a lot and your caloric intake if you want put calories back in the game will be much lower. So not only that you are going to start stimulating glucagon the major hormone for fat burn and also suppressing insulin which is the main fat storage uh driver. Mhm. So, but also you will eat less food in general. Mhm. People were just getting in shape. Now, when when it came to bodybuilders, they were eating more than ordinary than actors and actresses from Hollywood and they had amazing results. One of the probably best uh condition athletes was Muhammad Mccabi who finished uh I think couple of times or or maybe few times finished in top three on Olympia and he was coached by Vince Geronda. Moabi was absolutely shredded in fantastic shape and uh there were also others. Arnold went to V Girondo when he came from from um Austria, Germany to America. He went to see Joer and Joer was he started showing arms and back and everything chest and Joe Vider said to him, “Yeah, you’re good, but you know, you need to see Vince.” Who is Vince? Just go and see him. And then Arnold went there and Vince introduced him to the diet that made him actually uh start getting in better shape because Arnold lost few shows. He lost show from uh Sergio Levi lost from Frank Zayn simply because he wasn’t in great shape and then once he get got into the shape he developed his own instincts. He was very instinctive. Arnold uh uh Arnold never impressed me with amount of knowledge that he had but he impressed me very much with the fact how instinctive he was. He didn’t know many many things that we know today. He was doing things training and eating following his instincts. Now the people around him didn’t understand what I mentioned earlier on that what Arnold did was good for Arnold. So they all tried to copy Arnold and not many of them succeeded. They couldn’t do it. Ed Cornney was training with him. Franco Columbbo, many others uh uh they just couldn’t follow. They were dropping that around him. Instead of doing what they should do, what they can do now they try to copy Arnold. So Arnold became like a already like a legend. If you don’t train like Arnold, then you know you don’t know what you’re doing. But this is wrong. That was fantastic for Arnold. We can learn a lot from Arnold. A lot of things he did right. Most of it is obviously very basic selection of exercises, a lot of sets, uh a lot of reps and obviously diet. Diet which was predominantly high in protein and medium fat. So um they arrived to that diet by trial and error and trial and error should also be considered a scientific experiment. Yeah. Because if you put something in in in in perspective and you want to achieve certain thing maybe compete on bodybuilding show and what it is then experiment and it’s scientific experiment. Why? Because you don’t have a a control group next to you. Is that this disqualified from scientific experiment? You have experimental and control group on the other side. So what if you don’t have control group? Who cares about control group? I’m going to try with 300 grams of protein and 300 grams of carbs. Let’s see what happens in 6 weeks. Oh, I’m not losing fat. So what I’m going to do? Let’s add protein to 400. Cut carbs down to 100. Oh, I’m getting in shape. Mhm. It’s an experiment. And it is more than scientific. is a life experiment. So it’s not performed in the lab. It’s performed in the real life in your life. So this is why I try to draw people back to you know experiment try don’t just follow blindly what he says there you know you’re not receiving antibiotics from a doctor or something. So you have to follow the rules. This is different. This is very very different. So u yes instinct and uh trial and error. This is what took them to a diet of high protein, medium fat. Very good. Um, that sort of reminds me of something else, which was I don’t know if you saw the Game Changers documentary where they talk about how everyone should go vegan and we should cut out all um, meat and everything like that. Um, and how these these athletes are improving their game by doing this. And there was a, you know, there’s a vegan bodybuilder or vegetarian. He basically built his body on eggs and protein shakes and things like that. And then and then um recent, you know, then for the film, they said he went vegan and now he’s feeling better as well. Um and other people as well. There’s a lot of flaws with that video. Obviously, there were about six athletes that tried to be in part of that and after about 6 months were like, “This is awful. This is ruining my health and my performance.” So, they cut out. Um and then a lot of the people that were in that um then subsequently dropped off of it afterwards and were like, “This was a huge mistake.” But one of the things that that uh really sort of irked me was um you know Arnold Schwarzenegger was in that and having built his entire physique and his entire empire on meat and eggs. He then says that well if he had been vegan or plant-based or whatever during his Olympia runs he would have been even better. And and you know who the [ __ ] are you to tell me what to eat? I was like, “Well, I’m a doctor and I actually know what I’m talking about, Arnold.” And um so that was uh that was something interesting that I saw. And obviously, you know, he’s friends with James Cameron and and James Cameron owns $140 million worth of a pea protein company. And so this basically was just a big ad for for plant-based proteins. But it it sort of was very very strange to me that someone who is such a pillar of the bodybuilding community and even did something like the blueprint sort of approach where like hey follow me this was my blueprint this is how I succeeded do the same thing and his diet then was basically meat and eggs and now he’s sort of making that whole shift. I just wanted I’d be interested to hear your thoughts on that. Well I uh earlier on I mentioned to you that I was never impressed with his knowledge. Right. Yeah. All right. That’s half of an answer. Uh I was always impressed with his instinctive approach, his work ethics, uh his determination, persistence. These character traits were very very positive and they they are something that actually uh I always cherished and I’m like that as well. But there is also another thing that people who knew Arnold uh spoke about loudly and they said if if he can get the right price for his mother, he would sell her, right? So this is probably the second half of the answer. Okay. So why would why would Arnold say the nonsense about vegan diet? Now when it comes to vegetarians, I have few clients who are vegetarians, but these guys are eating eggs, tons of eggs. They’re eating cheese and cottages and they also taking protein shakes and they are doing fantastic. They they don’t eat any meat, any fish, any chicken and uh I don’t try to persuade them to eat that because you know if you are religious or this is your ethical belief there is nothing to talk about. If you want to talk about u rational exchange of facts yes we can talk about but I’m not going to change your religious view your philosophical views. they are basically your choice and you have to follow it. I if I can help, I will help. So being vegetarian doesn’t mean that you’re going to be reducing your essential amino acids and essential proteins like from eggs, uh cheese, uh caffeir for example, and protein shakes. So they do well. Now when it comes to vegans, uh the the the story is not very bright. There is nothing nothing very good about that. First of all, uh we we we our physiology talks and our anatomy, you see, you have ophagus coming down from from the top of your neck and goes down directly into the suck full of acid and pepsin, hydrochloric acid and pepsin. So why is that acid there waiting? There’s a few liters of it. What is the waiting for? What what gets digested in acid? Why don’t we have something uh different in our in in our stomach? Acid is there to digest protein. So your body is talking to you. Human body is telling us what the first most important thing that should enter stomach is and this is something that has to be digested in particular acidic environment. This is protein. End of story. So if you eat your grains and your rice and your corn and whatever, good luck to you. But this is not who you are. Maybe this is something that you want to be but you are not. So uh I wish them all the best. But uh I had I I I gave a few lectures uh in the in the communities of vegans and also vegetarians. And I remember one in Hamstead. This is very uh up market area in London. When they invited me, they were all vegans and vegetarians. So when I came there I said to them guys uh we have two options tonight. One option is I will tell you what you want to hear and you will all go home happy and another option is I will tell you how it is and now you tell me what you want to hear from me and they all stood up. They were clapping and say we want to hear how it is. So I told him everything I knew about nutrition and on the end of my lecture which was about couple of hours I I had to stay for another two hours in the hall talking to most of them because there were few hundred people there and half of them decided to start eating eggs and fish and chicken etc etc. So uh you know uh we have reason we have mind we we use that in order to help ourself exist better and exist longer so this is this is how I see it and I don’t believe Arnold I the second that he said that he is a vegan and that he will do much better if he was a vegan. So just makes me laugh. Yes. Yeah definitely. Well that’s great. Thank you so much for that. Um, I was just going to say you told us what what you’re eating. I’m I’m presuming that’s sort of similar to what you’re telling your your clients to eat. What what sort of would you put them on? Um, is the same sort of approach. Three meals a day, meat and eggs, that sort of thing. Uh, my general approach is especially for people over 35, 40, uh, because this is when when men male population start getting fat easily. And the reason for that is obviously uh slow insulin resistance developing insulin resistance or if I may say lowering the insulin sensitivity. So once over that age 35 40 one should be very careful about that insulin sensitivity. Now the best way to increase insulin sensitivity is when it comes to diet to downgrade downsize on carbohydrates and increase protein. And when it comes to training to develop muscles because developing the muscles the muscle cells they grow they stretch and receptors get more open and more sensitive to insulin. So this combination of weight training and low carbohydrate diet high protein medium fat is the master key is the gold uh golden answer to health longevity and muscle growth. There are people that I I still allow to stay on carbohydrates not much because the the whole most of their lives they were on x amount of carbohydrates and the ones who are performing well and who are lean obviously can manage them. So uh I don’t reduce much but for overwhelming majority it’s always the same story and this is carbs down protein and fat up and when that happens changes uh arrive within weeks there are people you that you can see on my website uh before and after for example and you can see that the up dramatic changes they’re not changes they’re dramatic life changes from obese used to shred it lost like 60 70 pounds of fat and on the stage. So how how did this is how we did it? Carbohydrates down protein and fat up and then obviously energy comes up because when you start relying on your body fat fat oxidation your energy sources are unlimited. This is why you could have done so much uh wrong or right doesn’t matter now we’ll talk about it in next video but uh your energy stores are unlimited. Mhm. So if you rely on carbohydrates you can’t you you can you will always need extra carbs. Now you see bodybuilders now having uh energy drink before training. Then they calling something what they calling intra intrraining again something sugar and then after immediately. So they’re kind of blasting that insulin all the time in order helping hoping is going to build more muscles. I mean absolute nonsense. They just can run can live without carbohydrates because they’re hooked with this and their energy stores are limited now when you rely on fat. Uh I had a group of marathon runners that it took me months to convince that they would do much better if they eat more protein and fat and less carbohydrates. Oh, but Nesh when we run we hit the wall you know within first one hour or two hours whatever it is we hit the wall then we need more carbs and I say okay what was your run? 4 hours a marathon fine why don’t you try next one let’s see what happens then they do next one and drop to three they just cannot believe I didn’t hit the wall I said that wall is what your imaginary wall you have created that wall is a nonsense you I’ve also trained people like professional uh Premier League footballers and boxers and swimmers and stuff like that and they all responded much better once on high protein, high or medium fat diet. The problem with that diet, which I’m going to do the video on that, the pro the biggest problem with high protein, low carb diet, is that people don’t eat enough protein. They just cut the carbs out and they remain on 100 grams of protein a day and they think something is going to happen. No, you need to up that. So, when you are on protein, high protein, low carb diet, you need to eat a lot of protein. That’s it. Because you will need that protein. Most of the protein will be used for energy. Protein itself is very uh uh termic uh micronutrient thermic effect of protein it’s up to 30% meaning 30% of the calories that you eat from protein will be burned in order to digest itself. So all that has to be understood. You’re not going to get away with 150 grams of protein. Maybe if you eat them in one meal but but not in a day. So yeah. Yeah. I um that’s that’s the thing when I when I was growing up and doing sports and I’m sure you came across this as well that idea of the wall this dreaded wall we need to eat carbs to avoid the wall or now they call it bonking as you have to eat carbs and sugar in order so you don’t hit the wall you don’t bonk but when I was when I was coming up it was yeah you hit the wall and then you keep pushing and you keep going and then you can break through the wall and then you get your second wind and your runner’s high and you can just go forever and what I sort of came to realize that’s getting to the point, well, your insulin’s up, you block lipolysis, you can’t, you know, um, raise your blood sugar, you can’t raise your ketones, and then you will run out. You’ll run out of glycogen, you’ll run out of of sugar, and and then you’ll you’ll hit the wall. And normally, it takes 24 hours or so for you to get your insulin low enough so you can start producing these energies denovo. But if you’re forcing this, instead of dying, your body says, “Okay.” And it forces you into that that ketogenic state. Now you can start burning uh fat and you can start raising your blood sugar through glucanogenesis and all of a sudden you just feel amazing. And that’s why I feel I’ve never hit the wall when I’m in this because when you’re just eating proteins and fats, you live in your second when you’re always past the wall. You’ve always you’ve always you’ve started past there and um high in and it’s that’s interesting you worked with the marathon runners because that that’s actually been studied. There are there are um controlled trials that have been done in elite ultramarathon runners and iron man runners by um uh Mweeny in 2018 that showed that they self- selected into keto and carb groups. So just fat and protein versus high carb. And then they uh gave them 3 months to adapt and there is an adaptation period when you get optimal performance. you get you be able to turn on um different epigenetic effects where you’ll you’ll utilize ketones properly and more efficiently. And so after 3 months they found they did a um 100 mile run, long run and a 6second sprint and then a critical power lifting test. So all the different ways you can move your body athletically, they did them. And these are again in elite athletes. And the ketogenic group, the protein and fat group beat the carb group on all three of those exercises. And um so any way you want to look at this, this is this is you don’t need and you actually don’t want carbohydrates for optimal performance from an athletic point of view. you know, if we’re talking about, you know, bodybuilding and doing this, that, and well, maybe maybe there’s something that um you know, benefits you by having some carbs every now and then, but pure raw athletic uh expression um then you know that they found at least in that study and you know it’s not it wasn’t 5,000 people. So, you know, there’s um there is that, but they found that that was um that they they were outperforming the carb athletes even though the carb athletes were sucking down the gels. And then there was the Vollec and Finey uh faster trial was done in 2016 and looking specifically at glycogen. So so exactly to your point, the body makes glycogen and it has plenty of glycogen available. And they did muscle biopsies again on elite marathon runners and iron man runners. And I have a whole video on this on YouTube uh called ketogenic carnivore athletes that people can check out. And um but they did muscle biopsies before a 3-hour run directly after the 3-hour run and then 3 hours after that in recovery. The carb group is sucking down gels and sugars and Gatorades and all that sort of stuff the whole time. And the keto group is just doing it and and they they had already been keto. So some of these people had been keto for 3 years um or more. Average 22 months. So average was nearly two years. And uh not only did were they performing at a very very high level, their muscle glycogen was exactly the same before, after, and 3 hours after as the carb athletes who were sucking down these gels. So the idea that you have to have carbohydrate, you have to eat carbohydrates in order to replenish your your glycogen just just simply doesn’t hold up. Ah, exactly. Yeah, this is uh it’s been known now. It’s not it’s not a secret. The only problem is that comfort zone that I I mentioned so many times because it’s much nicer to eat rice and pasta than than just eggs and steak all the time. So yeah, people like pleasures and they they are actually paying with their health and their lives for that pleasure. So you know the question is again do you live to eat or do you eat to live? That question always hovers around those issues. So you need to make Yeah. Exactly. Well uh Dr. Dr. Yosik, thank you so much for taking the time. Um, this one we covered u a lot of nutrition. We’re going to be and uh the next episode we’re going to be covering training. So, if people want to know about the you know the optimal training u please uh keep an eye out for that as well. But um please tell us um first of all thank you and also can you tell us you you have a YouTube channel just just under your name I believe and um which I’ve I’ve been I’ve been sort of uh watching a lot of these videos recently. and I really really enjoy them which is why I reached out. Um but please let us know let people know where they can find you and also do you have any book you mentioned you’ve written a number of books. Do you have any books on the subject of nutrition in this in this um in this space as well? Yes. First of all uh thank you thank you very much for inviting me and giving me an opportunity to talk in front of your viewers and followers. Uh my YouTube channel is simply Dr. Nash Yotsich J O C I C and uh my website is nashfittraining.com and on that website you can find all my ebooks and other services that I provide and especially books about nutrition there are few about nutrition so um yes whoever is interested is more than welcome and once again thank you very much for having me on your show on your channel absolutely um thank you so much we’ll put all those links down below. I know people can find them down there. And I do encourage people to go and uh and check out your channel because a lot of a lot of great videos and um uh with a lot of experience and wealth of knowledge and and you’re living this having this lived experience. You you were there, you know, you you you uh saw these people train, you trained with them, and then you carried that forward and you’ve been training like that ever since then as well and having all these these amazing results. Um and so I I appreciate that. And um oh god I I actually did forget to ask one question, but if I can maybe just just one last thing. What was the um where did that transition hit when everyone just said, “Hey, you need 500 gram of carbohydrates to be a bodybuilder?” Because that that took a while, you know, after Arnold, didn’t it that people became sort of carb monsters and things like that? When did that transition sort of change? Do you know when that happened or who did that? Absolutely. Yes, it changed the 90s with with Dorian Yates. Uh they they discovered the the powerful new hormone uh which was relatively unknown and unused in the past which is insulin. Mhm. And that hormone allowed people to build big muscles very quickly. It’s a very dangerous exogenous insulin is very dangerous compound. Yeah. And because of that insulin they had to increase carbohydrates because insulin will too much insulin in your body will constantly distribute the the glucose blood sugar. So you need constant influx of carbohydrates. Hence you have to eat four, five, six grams of carbohydrates a day probably 100 grams in every meal. And this is what changed the game. This is why people he was known as the first mass mo monster uh because simply because of that single compound and then everything after that changed dramatically. Everybody had to follow Ronny Coleman, Jay Cutler, Phil Heat, whoever is today, they’re all on the same protocols. They’re all taking that insulin. Uh obviously when you are on insulin, you have to take carbohydrates because otherwise you’re gonna you’re gonna die. your brain is just going to you know finish because if drop of sugar is detrimental as you know so um this is the game changer insulin bodybuilding if you look uh until Dorian and his victory 92 all the way Lee Henny for example Lee Haney uh wasn’t a mass monster he was great it looks fantastic Mr. Olympians before him like Sam Bernardon and you had Frank Zane then you have everybody else in the past Arnold and the boys they looked amazing but what they all had in common was small waste when vacuum posed so their organs intestine especially were not overdeveloped they were normal and they could have performed that beautiful posing on the stage with the small waist and every time even ley would do double biceps and phenomenal photos. You can see his abs are just sinking in. They’re disappearing. You’re wondering where are your organs. Now from 92 that story has died, died out. So now we don’t have that anymore. We have bellies out because insulin is a merciless hormone, anabolic hormone, and it’s going to make plus growth growth hormone together. They make all the tissues grow even bones grow like nose, jaws, elbows, feet and all that. Uh also organs grow they get enlarged and this you can’t hide it. Even if you get ripped, your belly is going to stick out. This is called bubble guts. And this is very common today. I see a lot of people in the gym where I am uh training people in London uh who who are always with it. You think they’re fat, but they’re not fat. You can see they’re six. It’s just the bell is out there. They’re not flat anymore. And this is directly related to exogenous insulin, carbohydrates in the diet and uh growth hormones. So this is this is the game changer. Serge Nubra used to say I eat meat only before the show and during the year mostly meat, sometimes beans and uh and rice. But this is why my uh midsection is so tight and flat. because of low presence of insulin. Now imagine you inject insulin. So on one side you had I don’t want insulin because it’s going to make my guts grow. It’s going to make me water retention. It’s going to make me eat carbohydrates. And now the story has completely shifted. And now yes, I need insulin. I’m going to inject insulin and I’m going to eat carbohydrates simply because I have to. And this is why I’m going to do two, three hours cardio a day because I have to burn that energy. somehow. So, how stupid that is, how idiotic that is that you bring extra calories and then you do extra cardio in order to burn those extra calories. I mean, absolute madness. Who did cardio in the Sergio didn’t do any cardio? Arnold didn’t do any cardio. Serge [ __ ] didn’t do any card. Nobody did cardio. If they needed, they trend twice a day. You’re bodybuilder. You’re not a runner. It’s a nonsense. Now, they’re doing it because they have to do it. Mhm. You have to do it with your four or five rounds of carbs. You have to do hours of so-called cardio which will be talked about in the next video which I I don’t buy that concept at all. So there is no such a thing as cardio exercise anyway. But uh yeah this was the game changer 92 and uh the era of insulin which forced people to eat carbohydrates. Now I see them in the gym. They ate tons of rice, some a bit of chicken on the top few times in in four or five hours. Where it goes? I know where it goes. I don’t know why it is. I know what you’re taking as well. Everything is written. Everything is written out there. The world is like an open book. All you need to do is just to look carefully and analyze. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that’s really interesting. And uh I hadn’t known that. And um and and the issue with that is too is that you know that that totally makes sense. You know, if you’re if you’re using insulin as a as an anabolic steroid um then you obviously need carbs or you can kill yourself. You can put yourself in a coma and die. Um but that’s that’s sort of gone down filtered down into the ranks of high school kids that I need to put on muscle. I have to eat carbohydrates. you know, they’re not injecting insulin if they’re if they’re smart. Um, and so that’s um it sort of defeats the purpose there as well. They’re just going to be putting on fat basically and then they’re going to again having to do all that cardio and have to to burn that fat again. Nonsense. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Well, great. Well, thank you so much for that. That was that was really interesting. I really appreciate it. Um and and thank you guys. Hopefully you guys enjoyed that. Um please do join us for round two where we’ll be discussing optimal training um then and now. And uh Dr. Yosich, thank you so much. Been an absolute pleasure. More than welcome. Thank you very much for having me. Thanks. Hey guys, thank you very much for taking the time out to listen to what I had to say. If you like it, then please like and subscribe to my YouTube channel and podcast. And if you’re on YouTube, then please hit that little bell and subscribe. and that’ll let you know anytime I have a new video out, which should be every week, if not more. And if you could share this with your friends, that would help me get the word out and let me know that you like what I’m doing.