[Music] Hello everyone. Thank you for joining me for another episode of the PlantFree MD podcast. I’m your host Dr. Anthony Chaffy and today I have two very special guests, Jen and Ian Martin, who have just written a book called The Healing Compass and are here to tell us all about it. Um, thank you both for coming on. It’s a pleasure. Thanks for having us. Thanks for letting us be a part of your show. Absolutely. So for people who haven’t come across you or your book, can you tell us a bit about yourself and um maybe some broad strokes on the book and and why you wrote it? Well, I’ve always had an interest in health. Um from growing up all the way till through adulthood, I had my children. Uh my second son had a lot of digestive issues. Um my mom was very into health, so I was based on her version of health, which was heavily plant-based. and white meat as well, but mostly plant-based. Um, and yeah, so I started to look into diet in terms of trying to help him with his digestive problems. And uh, over time I did some changing. I don’t really know exactly what made the difference, but it certainly got me interested in behavior uh, child behaviors and also the impact of diet and lifestyle and things like that. Um, kids all grew up. He did a lot better. And then I went and trained as a social worker and I was working doing that for a while. But again, health was always very important to me. My previous like a long time ago, I trained as a midwife. So the whole body and biology and stuff was really intriguing. And anyway, um, moving forward a little faster, um, Ian and I got together and found that we were both really into all kinds of things that can impact on health and well-being. Um, I’ll tell his story in a moment, but one of the particular con um, subjects that we talked about was about the enagram personality types. And I was just so intrigued by this. It was amazing to me. And so we over the time we’ve been together, we would have these conversations and then learn other um information like Germany medicine, like like the carnivore diet, all of it. And as we were talking, we started to realize like, hang on a minute, all of these modalities, all of these frameworks are standalone and are being spoken really well about by a lot of different people. But what if we kind of put them all together and it created a fuller picture? And we had these conversations a lot until So then we started, we’ve only been doing the carnivore um way of eating since April. Okay. Um I originally uh decided to do it because menopausal symptoms were driving me fatty and I thought I’ve got to do something. And so I just said to Ian, I’m doing this. And he’s like, “Yeah, all right, but I’m not ready to give up vegetables.” So he joined me about two weeks later, which was good because we used up all the veggies in the fridge. And anyway, um, but he started to see a change in me. And I can’t say that all those symptoms are gone, but a whole bunch of other stuff started to change as well. But the thing that changed in regards to the book was I that this brain fog that I’ve been dealing with for so many years just started to lift and I started feeling clearer and more able. And so we were having our this conversation again for the eenth time and it was like you know we really need to put this down in a book and I’m like okay. And literally that day came came inside and started writing it. And the goal was to do a skeleton and we were both going to work on it. But it just kept on coming out and coming out and coming out. I’m like, “Oh my goodness.” Eventually goes, “I think this is your book then.” So he’s a very large influencer in the book, but I ended up just being untitled the author. Yeah. Very good. Um Okay, great. So have you obviously you know talking about this and seeing this you have have you how how do you apply this um because obviously you’re sort of incorporating all these different sort of aspects you know personality biology the nutrition all side of things all into um you know one paradigm. So, how does that how does that look when you’re implementing this and and someone they’ve come to you, they’re sort of unwell, they’re not really think about maybe in your position where they maybe sort of having having extreme, you know, menopausal symptoms and uh they just they want to feel better like how how do all these things sort of wrap together? Well, the common thread is stress. Mhm. So our personality type um will show us very clearly and accurately how we view the world, how we do life in the world and how we understand and interpret everything that goes on around us. So all nine personality types will experience stress in a very slightly different way. So when you understand how the world is viewed and how the stress is perceived and and of course gender is still really important in terms of hormonal balance and behaviors according to what can increase or decrease testosterone and estrogen to maintain the balance. So when they get out of balance again it’s a further stressor on the body. So then the next thing is um German new medicine which instead of the traditional way of oh I have symptoms there’s something wrong with my body it’s a different viewpoint it’s oh I have symptoms oh excellent my body is healing after a stress or trauma now obviously there’s a lot more to it there’s a lot of information in that but I don’t know if you’ve ever wondered why somebody can two people can experience the same kind of similarish life but end up with completely different symptoms. And when you look at the perception of the world and then you can understand where in the body these symptoms land, it gives you a better understanding of the story of the person. And then the carnivore diet essentially what that does is it reduces the stress load on the body. So, you’re removing all the toxins and the sugars and the carbs and everything else that goes along with a fairly average diet um and replacing it with highly nutritious beneficial food. So, not only does the body have the resources being put in to reverse any what German new medicine refers to as adaptations. So, there’s an adaptation in the body. It’s not a a a problem, it’s an adaptation. Um so when the body has the resources to reverse the adaptation well then you can actually go through and not even have any symptoms at all. But then at the same time you can also have a clarity of mind which can then address whatever was causing the stress. So the carnivore diet what we have found is that it sets a person up in the best possible way to be able to handle what life throws at you. But then the rest of it helps to understand when something comes up the what’s the why the how. Yeah. So the so the um I I’ve been a practitioner for a number of years. I I I first started doing clinical work as a health practitioner a kinesiologist in 93. So 30 years um plus. And it’s uh it it’s basically a journey of understanding that the body literally is using a whole host of communication mechanisms with kinesiology and muscle testing the body body system using the body’s bio feedback mechanism. However, we instinctively know um this communication exists. We actually get messages from our body all the time, you know, with with pain, with with signals, with feelings of being uncomfortable, at ease, calm, restless. There’s there’s a a whole communication mechanism occurring all the time. Um, what we found is that there’s um I’ve been studying personality type now for many, many, many years, uh, to the point where I’ve started to realize it plays a a huge part in understanding our own health. because different personality types are prone to different types of stresses and different types of conditions that occur in their system. Um some personal types are more heightened to anxiety. Um and therefore, you know, the things that we normally associate with anxiety and where that sits in the body um develops in those areas and actually is more pronounced than it is in somebody that doesn’t necessarily sit in that anxious space all the time. So as a result of understanding this, it gives us an idea of what we’re actually dealing with in individual people. But when we found the German medicine, the German medicine showed us that a specific type of conflict or stress or trauma that was a shock to the system not only shows up in a very specific part of the body. Um and it was found um by the guy that actually did all the research and discovered it and put it on the uh table was uh Rod Hammer, a German uh MD. He uh basically found that also with somebody flown up with a very severe case of a very specific condition in the same part of the body um and the same illness also had uh the same uh focus point that was showing up in a brain scan circle. So it was a corresponding circle that actually showed up 100% of the time. and he did over 60,000 case studies where people that were suffering exactly the same diseases and conditions um in exactly the same part of the body um had exactly the same focus point showing up on a brain scan. Interesting. And it starts to make you realize that there is a there’s this is not random. There’s there’s a pattern to this. The the the incredible creation of this human body is full of intricacies that have patterns that we can actually see and map and understand. Um, why that’s not more wellnown is the same reason why lots of things aren’t more wellnown and it’s why the entire world doesn’t uh live on a carnivore diet is um we steered mainstream steers people away from a lot of things into the mainstream thinking um and again away from those things which can give us a lot of valuable information. So, we’ve been putting this stuff together for a long time, knowing that personality really does influence the way that the body receives its information because we are viewing it through our own lens. And there’s nine different lenses. Um, some are feeling types, some people feel their way through the world, some are instinctual, some they sense their way through the world, and some are cognitives. uh and and those are very cognitive uh operating their cerebral activity in regards to they think their way through the world. So you you know you listen to people’s language they’ll say I think this and some say I feel this um and I sense or I get this um their their language is all of their own and when you listen closely you can actually identify a person’s type purely by that language and it also shows up in their facial features. shows up in their body mass, their structure, the way they hold their body, the top body types. Um, and as a result of that, some are heavier than others and uh therefore prone to the more structural things that affect the human body as well. So, problems with knees and hips and joints. So, and and there’s lots of correlation between all of these various different things. And some some may seem very complex, but when you break it down to the simplistic form, it’s like diet. How many times you look at the subject of diet and it’s a huge complex subject that’s got so many different variations of diet computations you could get. But when you break it down to the simplest thing, your body doesn’t have a receptor for carbohydrate. It does not know how to handle uh certain things. you can’t process oxalates. Um, it it only requires protein to build tissue and it needs fat as as as a a probably the most important factor of the diet is fat. And again, sugar interrupts the system. We know this the these are really basic simple things. However, the the subject of diet isn’t basic and simple because everybody over complicates it. Mhm. Yeah, absolutely. And um yeah, I mean I I always try to tell people that, you know, nutrition is very simple. You know, it’s just like you just figure out what an animal’s been eating for the longest period of time and it’s been most used to and most adapted to. Just do that. I mean, we don’t we don’t have randomized control trials trying to figure out what a what a dolphin eats or, you know, what a lion eats and you put them in captivity. Like, what goodness gracious are we supposed to feed these these strange animals? was like, “Well, just what do they eat?” A salad. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Well, well, vegetables are good for everything. So, everything should be, you know, a vegan. Yeah. So, um, no, you just look at what they eat. You know, what do they eat? What do humans been eating and, you know, going back a long time and and so, yeah, I agree with that. It’s it’s much it I think it’s very helpful to sort of break things down and simplify things because you look at that from like you said there’s the these complex sort of patterns and then they interact in in more complex ways and if you just look at that and like wow there’s just too much there I don’t I don’t know how to process all that can be difficult and you get down to brass tax and just say like look there’s these these nine personality types this is how these work and this is how they fit in this model that that can definitely help simplify things for people. Oh, it it really does. And a working model on a day-to-day basis and everything is everything is a process of learning. Uh we all learn at one time I spent eight years in a vegan diet. I was a health practitioner for over 30 years and I was telling people that eating lots of fresh healthy vegetables and plants and steering away from high fatty foods and salty foods is is the way to go. And I did that with good intention. It’s a little bit hard to accept that I did that for so many years, but at the same time I did with good intention. Yeah. Um it was only after Jen suggested that, you know, she wanted to do the carnivore diet that I said, well, I still think we need some vegetables in our diet. And it was again, it was years and years and years and years of this indoctrination and that has actually got me to the point where I believed it, but I’ve never questioned it. And I absolutely believed it. And when Jen started going on the diet, I started to go, well, hang on a second. I am noticing a difference. Even in two weeks, I was noticing a difference. I had already decided while she did that that I would cut out the carbohydrates. So, I cut out all of the grains. Sorry. All of the the the the uh the rice, pastas, cereals, biscuits, bread. And then I started to feel improvement and I went, well, I’m only I never dismiss anything outright. Mhm. Not until I’ve tried it. So, I just said, well, there’s only one way for me to know. I got to try this. So, I tried it and I am now 19 kilos lighter. Nice. And I’ve been suffering with acidity in my digestion even when I was on a vegan diet. Mhm. So, I had an acidic digestive system. I’ve always had heartburn and indigestion uh my entire life. That is now completely gone. I don’t have a single single bit of that at all ever. Um, and the other thing too is mental clarity is improved. But I do a lot of physical work. We live off grid. Um, there’s a lot of heavy work to be done. We we have animals. We have firewood to do and everything else. And um, I’ve built constructed everything we have and everything we live in. So my joints, my knees, my back, uh, all those things. I’m only four months off being 60 years old. And of course, it plays its toll on you when you’re doing a lot of heavy work. Mhm. But all my joint pain is gone. All my muscle pain is gone. All my aches and pains have gone. Mhm. And I only feel it if I’ve done a heavy day. And then usually that usually takes me a couple of days to get over, but it’s gone the next morning. Nice. The recovery rate is the thing that’s blown my mind. It’s it’s this incredible recovery rate. So the plan diet to us has been a game changer. An absolute game changer. Very good. Absolutely. Yeah. And and what about you, Jen? Did you um did you find similar sort of results when you went carnivore? Well, I didn’t realize how many problems I had until they all started going away. Yeah. Yeah. Same. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, two weeks into it, just like you said, I I I felt massive. And I was just eating whole fruits and, you know, whole I never really ate fruits, but you know, whole vegetables, spinach, kale, broccoli, and and lean meat, and that was it. And then just cut out the ve the veggies, ate a lot more fat and a lot more meat in general. Massive massive improvements. And then sort of look back on my whole life and just realize just how bad I I’ve actually been feeling this whole time without realizing it. And that that’s sort of what sparked that fire for me. I was I was pissed. I was like, that’s that’s ridiculous. I should have been feeling great this whole time and I could have been. So that’s that’s that’s great to hear that you have that same experience. Yeah. Well, there’s certain things that you just kind of that well certainly I accepted as just this is what I do now. H one of them was rain arts. I had rain arts for oh the last probably five, six, seven years. I don’t know. Don’t really it it was progressively getting worse. So yeah cold it’s it’s unusual conditions. It’s not just about cold. It’s often cold and damp or something like that. Anyway, but I would lose fingers and toes. I couldn’t feel them. They’d go white. And that I haven’t had that at all since the the menopausal symptoms eased haven’t gone away, but I understand them. I understand what’s actually going on better now and what is happening makes more sense. And that became a little clearer understanding the gender stuff. um you know when the ovaries stop producing stop producing estrogen and the adrenal glands take over there’s there’s a bit of a a competitive thing going between not really quite competitive but you got adrenaline and you’ve also got estrogen all in the same kind of area and there’s kind of I believe there’s something funky going on in there that creates a bit of a problem and what Ian was saying earlier about certain types experiencing a lot of anxiety that would me I’m a I’m a cognitive and I’m in the middle of the cognitive group and anxiety is my constant companion and for a long time I always thought that there was something wrong with me that I worried all the time and there was you know I’m always a few steps ahead of you know protecting myself from something bad happening I catastrophized like you wouldn’t believe Ian’s 10 minutes late and he’s already dead and buried you know had the service the law it could be quite dramatic anyway a lot of that has settled down it still part of my personality structure. It has a job to do. Um but I I now can spot it, handle it rather than having it driving me. And I think that that’s something that um other people have talked about, although they haven’t made reference to um personality type, but when we’re listening to people talking on podcasts, and I do it all the time, we’re constantly personality typing them. And it’s not hard to do. So, it’s like you can hear the language, see the structure, and go, “Oh, there are that.” And that explains why they’re coming from that angle, and it’s pretty handy. Yeah. Not only that, and you see people being interviewed, people that have been on the diet for a while, and you get people that have had big changes in some areas and and struggled with other things. Some people, they expect to immediately lose weight because that’s what’s reported most of the time. And then you get some people that are making improvements in their health, in their body, but the weight is the thing that is a little bit slow in in coming off. And again, it all depends on what that person’s dealing with. You can you can have with conflict flux and with the body’s uh stress, the body actually uh naturally overcomes these things itself. Um, generally speaking, once you’ve removed yourself from that environment or from the presence of that person or from the condition or you’ve handled it and actually been able to see what it was that caused the stress, the thought, the belief, whatever it was that was driving it, um, then the body will resolve it. Sometimes it doesn’t have the resources and as soon as you give the body the resources, that’s why as soon as people go on the carnivore, all of these what they call hanging healings that literally are just hanging there waiting to resolve in the body because the stress has moved past is now gets repaired because the body has the resources. If you ask a builder to build you a house, if you don’t give him any materials, he can’t build you a house. needs building blocks. So the body’s ready to rebuild the tissue from a healing that’s already been done but can’t do it because it doesn’t have the resources. So that’s why these things to us make sense in actually understanding and look at them more for the simple reason they do complement each other. When somebody gets something that doesn’t heal, doesn’t come good very quickly, it may mean that the bit that’s not handled is the emotional stress or the emotional trauma that might actually still be sitting there. And if we can focus on what that is and we can find that through one where it is in the body using the Germany medicine model of actually being able to pinpoint exactly what kind of emotion might be there. Then asking a few questions about their past and where did it begin. also knowing the personality type and knowing what they’re inclined to have a response with. Then we can actually find it, remove it, and then the camera will the rest of the tools will just do the job for us. They’ll fix the problem. It’s also possible that it sheds a little bit of a light on um keto flu. So, if you were to write a list of keto flu um symptoms, it’s a long list. You know, lot people experience it in so many different ways. And we were kind of talking again one day and it was like, well, what if these are just conflicts and the healing, you know, healing happens in a fluid environment. You have swelling in order to assist the healing. So all of a sudden the body’s got the capacity to heal. And so then the swelling comes in, there’s pain, there’s discomfort, there’s whatever it else was going on. But that’s moving through the re resolution once you go on the carnivore diet. like amount of times you see it on social media going, “Oh, I did this and then all of this happened and my doctor said this and I had to come off it and and all of these hanging healings been waiting to resolve. Soon as you go on the carnivore diet, they resolve.” And we all know if you work in the health industry, you know that when your body goes through the process of actually fixing something, sometimes that doesn’t feel comfortable. Sometimes that is a process that you have to go through the healing mechanism. The body decides to throw out rubbish and then everybody goes, “Oh, now I’m sick. I’ve got a cold.” No, the body is now cleaning house. Um, and the way the body actually deals with an infection in a cut, you know, suddenly all this horrible stuff’s coming out of my infection. No, that’s the body now purging the system and pushing that stuff out. It’s not You’ve not gone bad. You’ve not gone wrong. There’s not nothing broken. It’s all functioning. It’s all working. This through and let the body give the keep giving the body the right nutrition and just let it do its job. Yeah. Hey guys, just want to take a second to thank our sponsor at Carnivore Bar. I don’t promote many products because honestly all you need to be healthy is to just eat meat. For those times that you’re out hiking, road tripping, or stuck at work and you want nutritious snack that is just meat, fat, and salt if you want it, the Carnivore Bar is a great option. So, I like this product not because it’s just pure meat, but also because I want the carnivore market to thrive as well. And the more we support meat only products, the more meat only products there will be available in the mainstream. So, if this sounds like something you’d like to get behind, check it out using my discount code Anthony to get 10% off, which also applies to subscriptions, giving you 25% off total. All right, thanks guys. Well, that’s that’s the old saying um that before you try to heal somebody, first ask them if they’re willing to give up that which is making them sick. Absolutely. So, absolutely. Yeah. Just sort of understanding that concept that that we’re inherently healthy. We should be inherently unless you have some sort of congenital uh issue or genetic issue. Um, but even then, you know, most genetic issues, they they have a a genetic predisposition, environmental trigger. And so, again, you know, stop doing things to yourself. And, um, I know, you know, I, you know, thinking about that from from that point of view, your body’s trying to heal, but also you’re not you’re not giving it the building blocks. I I’m, you know, that’s something that I see a lot in just in just um, you know, just my dayto-day with with patients. You know you have to I mean to use sort of a a specific example like I mean from a from from a macroscopic level you have someone with like multiple scerosis this is a demininating disease means it breaks down the mileination around the axons and the nerves nerve fibers in the central nervous system and so this can affect your brain your spinal cord so on and cause very serious neurological issues. So the the first part of that is the damage. Okay. So how how do we address the damage? There are certain things that are precipitating that damage. And you know my my ideas are that that this are actually different exposures that we’re having lectins, glyphosates, different sort of things you’re putting in or on your body that are then actually attacking your body and your body’s actually trying to defend your body by mounting an immune response. But you know the end result is is that you get damage to your to your nerve and um okay so let’s say you stop that damage and we have you know these relapsing and remitting and sort of these periodic episodes of you know flare-ups and and um and uh remissions even in you know standard sort of treatment of MS. Okay. But why is it that there’s only progression and that when you look at when you look at the studies looking at a new drug or something it’s always a new drug. Um they’ve actually tested ketogenic diets to this and said to try to see how many um if this reduce the number of new lesions over an 18-month period, but it’s always that wording. Does this reduce the number of of lesions as compared to this, you know, the standard um treatment. Um it’s never is can this reverse the lesions? Can this cause regression of the lesions? Why the hell is that? Well, because that’s a different problem. you know, you’re having the damage, but now you need the healing. And if you don’t have the building blocks, if you don’t have the B12, you don’t have the vitamin D3, if you don’t have choline, creatine, carnitine, DHA, EPA, cholesterol, saturated fat, if you don’t have if you don’t have these things in enough uh in enough quantities, you will not regrow your yourin sheep. I mean, even just B12, most people are so low on B12 that they can actually get demyelination of their of their axons anyway. Oxford University published a paper in 2008 showing that people that had below 500 peak moles per liter of B12 um which is probably the high end of the normal reference range here in Australia and most of the rest of the world that under that that people after 5 years their brains actually shrank by two and a 2.5%. and that under 30 307 um the reference goes down to like 150 140 but under 307 they actually found that their brain shrank by over 5% after 5 years. So that that most of that reference range is called normal. And most GPS will look at that and go, “Oh, your B12 is great. It’s 200. Yeah, you’re fine.” And they they actually don’t realize that that’s such a significant deficiency that they’re actually getting brain damage. They’re actually getting demolination without MS. And if you have a demolinating disease and you’re trying to heal that mileination, how are you going to do that with a with a B12 of 200? It’s not going to happen. And so absolutely. Yeah. So you correct that. You give your body those building blocks and your body just heals. And I’ve had a number of patients that have actually actually had regression of their of their lesions. And we’re getting ready to publish a case series on that actually showing that this is this is possible. So I I’ve absolutely seen in in in real time in real life that exact model that you just hey take away the harm, take away the problem and then give your body the building blocks that it needs to heal and it heals. The body can do that. And that’s the thing is there are times where you you the the mind is still stuck in whatever that problem was and so that needs to be addressed sometimes as well. Sometimes just having a clearer mind sorts it out anyway. Yeah. And and and that in reference to what you just said in regards to, you know, find out what is harming you and remove it. Mhm. Um, sometimes the thing that’s harmonous isn’t a food or isn’t a chemical or isn’t a Sometimes the thing that can be harmonous is there is an undelt with emotional trauma. There’s there’s there’s there’s sometimes there’s a hurdle we can’t get over and that is what holds some people up on their healing journey. M and with regards to um you know this is obviously a very simple solution to a vast number of bloody problems but uh yeah I’d have to step out grab my tinfoil hat and then rejoin the conversation in order to go down that particular yeah there’s a there’s a lot of there’s a lot of things that uh you know we could say that uh everybody once they start to wake up to um an alternative viewpoint of the world and the one that we’ve been fed for the last 50 years starts to see that there are other things connected to this that uh also could do be being addressed. It’s just a more difficult task sometimes. Yeah. Well, I mean, you know, just this simple idea that I mean, I I grew up always thinking that that um you have these diseases, you have these problems, and that there were people out there working on them and these pharmaceutical companies trying to figure out pills and concoctions and medicines to try to cure disease because that’s what my my great-grandfather when he was a doctor, that’s what he did. He tried to figure out the root causes, how to cure diseases. my my dad’s uncle, you know, set up a number of clinics all throughout Africa and back when it was, you know, colonized um very, you know, rural areas and going from, you know, place to place, you know, different clinic every day and um doing, you know, eye surgeries and cataracts and thises and that and extreme, but just constantly they were trying to cure disease. They were trying to help people in in real terms. And um now that’s sort of shifted. You know, I I grew up thinking that there’s there are these diseases, but someone out there is working on it. And um I’ve I I mean like, oh, how naive we are sometimes. Um it’s um you know, and I mean, and it’s not it’s not it’s not supposition, you know. I mean, Goldman Sachs has has had leaked um you know, minutes from their meeting and things like that or or even slides from their meetings. people have taken pictures and and leaked this to the press um asking um you know is is curing a patient of a disease a viable business model and of course no it’s not because you can then you’re only treating them once as opposed to treating them for the rest of their life and treating them symptomatically so that they can live with a disease as opposed to getting rid of the disease which is the point we that that actually is the purpose pharmaceuticals if people are well yeah that’s it You know, I I heard a very cynical statement that someone said years ago that oh well, you know, doc well, this is why I had a problem with it. They said doctors don’t want to cure patients because a patient cure cured is a is a customer loss. And that I I think is is wrong. Most doctors want to help their patients. And in fact, that’s why there’s such a high burnout in in medical professions as a whole is that uh we’re we’re doing everything that we can, everything that we’ve learned and and and and um been taught to try to help people and they’re just getting worse and worse and worse and then we start getting sick and we can’t control it and we’re doing the things that we’ve advised people and we’re getting worse and we’re like, “God, this is just horrible. This is hopeless.” And um and that’s that’s hard. So I you know it’s it’s not the the clinicians on the ground um in medical practitioners generally in in all in all divisions of it but but really above that you know is the pharmaceutical companies they’re not looking for cures and that’s and and and that’s we just need to know that that’s okay like that’s their business model. They want to look for treatments to symptoms fine that there’s nothing criminal about that. What what is wrong is is holding other people back from looking for that cure. So, you know, they that’s fine. They can they can just run on their business model, but we need to know as the public and as practitioners, they are not looking for cures. They’re just looking to make money on long-term treatments. Fine. That’s their business. But we’re going to keep looking for that cure and try to look for Well, not only are we going to look for the cure, and I think the cure is reasonably obvious. If we remove all the things that do us harm, that’s it. There is nothing to cure. That’s it. Let’s just let’s just work at it. They can do whatever they want to. Let’s work at it from the other side of the story. Let’s just remove all their customers. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and and that’s where the evil part comes in is because they they do try to shut that down because now they’re they’re trying to shut down, you know, people like myself and others who are trying to address root cause because it’s costing them money now. Um Yeah, that’s right. Yeah. And but they’re they’re doing it in the mental health space as well, like unbelievably. So for example, probably the best example would be um how many children are being diagnosed with ADHD? Well, I can tell you now that a vast majority of children that are diagnosed with ADHD are personally personality type seven. They have all the characteristics. They have all this running. They’ve got all this stuff going on. Super hypervigilant. Everything moves at a million miles an hour. They process things really fast. They’re actually able to keep track of a dozen things at once. This is the high functioning fast beating cognitive version of that personality type. And it looks like HCD. He ADHD. He can’t concentrate. Mhm. So, he’s constantly distracted. He’s high energy. He’s manic. He’s buzzing. He’s always always always in trouble. Um he’s just got the most active mind of all the personality types. and he is literally running at a pace that other people think is too fast. And there’s a he can do that with a bunch of the different personality types and just looking at them and you know depression is quite like the the personality type the feeling type and they spend most of their time melancholic and they’re happy being melancholic. However, their people their friends are looking in at them going you’re depressed. Something wrong with you. There’s something wrong with you. Why are you always so down and sad and, you know, dark and all this stuff? You need to go to the doctor. Next thing they’re on medication for a personality type feature. Yeah. So, you know, there’s a lot there’s a lot to it that we obviously couldn’t cover in one conversation, but the bottom line of it all is that when layered on top of each other, everything becomes clearer. And the book is essentially about pointing people at doors and going, you know, this might be worth a bit of your time to investigate to have a better understanding of this. It doesn’t give any huge explanations or descriptions or anything. It goes through all the types and it goes through all the German um or the gender stuff, the Germany, medicine, and then the carnivore and you know, a basic place to start and then a bunch of references for people to follow up. But I’m I’m pretty much almost finished the second book which will be about Yeah. Oh no. Oh, seriously. This writing thing is so much fun. Um, one of the things that has always that I’ve always found really interesting is when we we go out or we’d be out in the afternoon listening to people talking, it’s about personality typing and just typing people without even talking to them. And uh, you know, it’s it’s it’s such a fun thing to do. But what this book is about is um essentially it’s a support group for nine different people who have come together to help resolve some relational something or other nothing major. Um but all nine people are all the different personality types. And as the book goes as I go through the book it look it looks like putting all these like doing exercises putting the characters into different groups and watching them interacting. And the po the purpose of it is to to show people that there are nine different lenses. You know, this person isn’t trying to annoy you. They’re just a whatever personality type. Yeah. And some people aren’t being rude and ignoring you. They live in their own space in their own world. They’re not antisocial. They just their focus point is inside their mind. So the one-sizefits all type approach to generalized health, it doesn’t work because you’re looking at nine different ways of seeing the world and internalizing and handling stress. So when you look at them all in a very layered way, it all becomes it helps build the picture. And as far as we’re concerned and the way I’ve always looked at health and I’ve been a practitioner in the mental health field for over 30 years and I’m starting to realize that the the the viewpoint I’ve always carried is even more accurate the more the older I get and the more things I learn. It’s more accurate as time goes by. And that is health to me has always been a digital puzzle. And this one doesn’t come with a picture on the box. So you’ve got to build the picture to find out what’s going on. And the more pieces of the puzzle you’ve got, the easier you can see that picture. So we need more pieces of the puzzle. We need to see how many other things can affect us in how many other ways. It’s like you know yourself diet is one thing but linked to diet is chemical. So in other words, if you’re putting insecticides, pesticides, herbicides, fungicides, all these things into producing the food, not only are you then getting uh sometimes the wrong food in the form of plant-based foods, but you’re also getting um toxic of it, too. And again, not knowing that it’s even tap water. I mean, anybody that would just drink water from a tap, as far as I’m concerned, needs that piece of the puzzle. They need that piece. Yeah. Important. Yeah, definitely. Um, well, it look I I ab you know, the book is absolutely fascinating. I I love how you guys bring all of this together and, you know, looking at this from these different personality types. I mean, I certainly can see that even in my own patient population. There’s certain ones with certain personality types who um will will need different levels of of coaching and help to even succeed as a carnivore diet to help them get along the way. We have to address some psychological issues, some previous hang-ups and traumas and um and and and attitudes towards changing their lifestyle that are are different. They’re completely unique, but that would absolutely fall into these categories. And just as a clinician, as a practitioner, as an individual, understanding how you yourself work or a loved one or a patient works, then you can can better tailor your approach to helping them or yourself. And so, absolutely. Yeah. So, because everybody speaks a slightly different language and and some people, as you said, need coaching in a slightly different way. Some people their hangup is um an a mind process. Some people the hangup is this doesn’t feel right. Some people it’s um you know it’s having an emotional attachment to food. Um it’s they’re real things and and they have real impact in some people’s worlds. And for me knowing hope isn’t about putting people in boxes. It’s about the opposite to that. It’s actually about freeing them from these boxes because we look at the people that are classified as manic depressives, ADHD, you know, you got all of these boxes that people have been shoved into. What if this is just the personality structure and you just can’t handle that everybody is not the same? And we need to basically understand everybody is very different with very different needs. And helping somebody on their journey is about finding out what it is they’re struggling. Yeah, absolutely. Well, um, thank you both so much. I I I would love to have you back on um another time to to go into more depth about the book and and how you’ve seen this help people in in real real world settings because it is so interesting. And um if you if you’d like to come back on, it would be a pleasure to have you. Absolutely. Well, thank you so much for coming on. It’s been an absolute pleasure. Um, and please, you know, tell everybody where they can find the book and and follow you for more. And the book is full of resources. So, it gives people opportunities to go and look up some very valuable people in these fields, including yourself. So, it’s um Yeah, you you’ll put all the those I gave you those details, didn’t I, for show? Should you? Yeah. Yeah, we can put all that in the description, but do you guys have a website that that people can go to as well? Yeah. Uh, okay. So, website’s under construction. Um, so probably the it still functions, but it’s going to get an upgrade. Yeah. Anyway, the best way to get hold of us would be um it’s jen.ngmail.com. So just email and what we do is um we can help people with personality typing so that people can know what their type is and then we can help people move through the process. So none of these are modalities for healing specifically what they are is modalities for understanding and providing a good environment for the body to heal. So yeah happy to chat with people give let them know what their personality type is and we can go from there. So anyone wants to contact us just please reach out. Okay perfect. Well, I will put all those resources in the description so people can look down below and uh contact um Jen and Ian and look at their website and try and find uh and get their book and take a look at themselves. Um Jenny, thank you so much for coming on. It’s been an absolute pleasure. Thank you very much for taking the time. Thank you so much for having us. Thank you, Dr. Chief. It’s been a pleasure. Absolutely. And thank you very much everyone for for watching. Please do go follow uh Jen and Ian and go to their website and check out their book. It’s absolutely excellent. Uh thank you all very much and we’ll see you next time. Hey guys, thank you very much for taking the time out to listen to what I had to say. If you like it, then please like and subscribe to my YouTube channel and podcast. And if you’re on YouTube, then please hit that little bell and subscribe and that’ll let you know anytime I have a new video out, which should be every week, if not more. And if you could share this with your friends, that would help me get the word out and let me know that you like what I’m doing. Thanks again, guys.