This podcast episode features Dr. Anthony Chaffee, the host, and his guest, Joy Villa, an actress, recording artist, author, personal trainer, and holistic nutritionist. The conversation centres around Joy Villa’s significant health and fitness journey, particularly her recent transition from a 25-year vegan diet to a carnivore diet. Dr. Chaffee introduces Villa, highlighting her diverse background before diving into the topic of her dietary change and the reception it received, given her prominent role in the vegan fitness community. Villa notes that she was already used to controversy, but announcing her shift to eating meat, after a year of secrecy, resulted in significant backlash and hate from disappointed vegans, some of whom had trusted her.
Joy Villa recounts her dedication to veganism for health reasons for 25 years, including operating her own vegan fitness company. She was very rigid with her diet, supplementation, and exercise, believing herself to be one of the healthiest vegans she knew. However, she came to the revelation that the level of rigidity required suggested it was not the way nature intended humans to eat. Dr. Chaffee adds that requiring supplements indicates a diet is deficient and not what the body is designed to eat. Villa explains her fear of losing sponsorships, work relationships, and friendships within the vegan community, which led her to hide her initial departure from veganism.
The turning point for Joy Villa occurred when, during a period of extreme tiredness and hunger, she listened to her body, which told her it wanted fish. Despite being vegan for 25 years, she tried cooked salmon and immediately noticed her head fuzziness and tiredness disappear, stating it was like her body system got a reboot. This led her to gradually incorporate fish, then eggs (becoming pescatarian), and eventually meat, starting with lamb and then beef. Mentally, the transition was rough due to past beliefs and labels, but physically, she felt fantastic, with increased energy, ability to work out longer and stronger, improved voice (which she had lost while vegan), better sleep, and the disappearance of issues like blood sugar drops and anxiety.
Both Dr. Chaffee and Joy Villa discuss their perspectives on diet philosophies. Villa came to view veganism as potentially a “cult” or “religion” focused on moral superiority rather than just health, noting that some vegans she observed appeared unhealthy or used the diet to avoid mental health issues. She contrasts this with her experience on carnivore, which she finds to be a more natural way to eat, feeling satisfied without counting calories, and views it as potentially an “anti-eating disorder” diet due to the lack of restriction on quantity. Dr. Chaffee explains that the body is designed to signal satiety based on nutrient density, which meat provides, unlike plants high in bulk but low in essential nutrients. They touch on how perceived dietary rules, like the standard American diet or the outdated celery diet, often don’t align with the body’s actual needs or lead to a sustainable, enjoyable lifestyle.
The conversation expands to cover how diet, specifically the lack of animal fats and certain vitamins like D3 and K2 from animal sources, can negatively impact physical development, bone structure, hormone production, and fertility. They express concern over the lowest recorded rates of testosterone and fertility, attributing this partly to dietary deficiencies. They also discuss the perceived intentional vilification of meat and fat and promotion of processed and plant-based foods by powerful industries, using tactics like astroturfing to create fake grassroots movements and spread misinformation. Both speakers advocate for experimentation and listening to one’s own body as the best approach to finding an optimal diet, suggesting that trying a carnivore diet and then reintroducing other foods can reveal their negative effects. Dr. Chaffee shares his personal experience of over seven years on a strict carnivore diet and notes that alcohol is a plant poison which significantly negatively impacts his energy and performance, even in small amounts. They conclude by encouraging listeners to explore different viewpoints and find what works best for them.